420a turbo?

[Focker420]

I have a quick question about my 420a engine i have put tons of mods in the non-turbo but am still not happy with the performance whps wise.
so was wondering if it was worth it to build up this and turbo it (i want stage 4) or is the 4g63 a better or stronger engine to use for the horsepower i want.

 

[DSMcrazy3]

A search would yield every answer you're looking for.

No the 420a isn't a good power maker without forced induction. 4g63 is a much stronger engine to begin with than a 420a. If you take a built 420a and a built 4g63 it's a toss up almost. However, 420a is a much more modern design including the head(designed by Lotus).

I don't know what "stage 4" means to you, but all you need is a stage 2 kit for now at the most, which includes a decently sized turbo, with a nice FMIC(or SMIC) to accompany it. You won't have the drive train to support anything more powerful than that right now, nor a strong enough clutch. Stage 2 kit generally makes between 200 and 300 whp give or take. Note, the higher hp numbers are achieved with a good tune.

In no way is turbocharging a 420a, "blowing money".

Aftermarket support for 420a isn't quite as abundant as for 4g63, but now that so many have successfully turbo'd their 420a and the support is growing each day.

 

[Jeremoose]

I have a quick question about my 420a engine i have put tons of mods in the non-turbo but am still not happy with the performance whps wise.
so was wondering if it was worth it to build up this and turbo it (i want stage 4) or is the 4g63 a better or stronger engine to use for the horsepower i want.

My first question back to you would be: what type of horsepower do you want? I'm not suggesting you sell your car, but maybe your horsepower needs would be met by a stock turbo DSM? Or do you want more of a weekend warrior?

 

[wret]

One. Focker420, we have a whole new section for 420A's. Try posting there next time. You'll get a lot of help without the wisecracks.

Two. ilikespeeding, telling members to sell their non-turbo to buy a turbo IS against the rules. If you can't help, don't post.

Three. DSMcrazy3, your answer was helpful but let the mods be the heavies next time.

 

[4BangR-x]

Actually the poster asked if he should instead buy a 4g63.

 

[Focker420]

man u guys are all over the place.

1st im not a full member and an limited to write in certin forums. Second Dsmcrazzy3 i have most upgrades already like a safc2, Duel friction clutch, and a rebuilt head new cams ect. Also am planning on getting new pistons and rods, stock crank i think will be sufficiant. And then the turbo upgrade FULL KIT wit EVERYTHING, and i didn't say i was blowin my money. The only thing i blew my money on is by getting a headman header and now am gunna turbo charge instead of supercharge because it is cheaper and more feesable, and of coarse the chronic. i just wanted to know if there was anybenefits to the 4g63 such as liquid cooled valves, 4 bolt or 6.

 

[lxeclipsegsx]

putting a turbo in a 420a engine is like any other car you putting a turbo on a non turbo engine i'm sure with the right mods it will be up there. well thats what i think.
now off from the topic sorry
i got a stage 3 clutch should of got stage 4 because i'm go with the t3/t4 turbo and hanh recommend to put a stage 4 for a a stage 3 turbo, i got low compress pistons eagle rods after market crankshaft and stage two turbo cams a whole rebuild kit underdriven pulley aftermarket retaniers and springs valves to. thinking of boosting 15pounds now my questions is how much hp should i be expecting?

 

[XMasta19]

So you're saying you're willing to just throw your 420a out the window after all you say you have done.....even when a fully built boosted 420a is just as comparable to a 4g63

 

[BigRand]

I think in terms of stages it is determined that a

Stage 1: a non-intercooled turbo kit, on stock block

Stage 2: intercooled system (FMIC or SMIC) on a stock block

Stage 3: a FMIC system, on a built block ready to handle more then 8psi of fuel

Stage 4: (could still be apart of stage 3) Fuel managment system, such as Megasquirt, or porterfueler, an upgraded clutch, anyone pushing 12-20psi.

Stage 5: Upgraded axles, LSD, fully tuned, pushing 16psi+ or nearing 300whp+, possibly using other power adders such as nitrous. Headwork (cams, gears, p&p, valvetrain)


Anyways thats how I think of it, agree to disagree or not.


As for the original poster, it does seem like you have spent a lot of time and money into your 420a NT already, and turbo'ing your 420a would not be a bad idea assuming you are planning on spending more on it.

A 4g63T block is stronger then a stock 420a block and is built to handle boost from the factory, however thats not to say it doesn't have its own problems too. A built 420a vs. a bult 4g63, is kind of a toss up, however I believe the 4g63 has more of a power potential. However not everyone utilizes that potential.

 

[dr1665]

As for the original poster, it does seem like you have spent a lot of time and money into your 420a NT already, and turbo'ing your 420a would not be a bad idea assuming you are planning on spending more on it.

I agree.

A 4g63T block is stronger then a stock 420a block and is built to handle boost from the factory, however thats not to say it doesn't have its own problems too. A built 420a vs. a bult 4g63, is kind of a toss up, however I believe the 4g63 has more of a power potential. However not everyone utilizes that potential.

I wouldn't say the block is the weakest link, so much as the pistons and rods. Typically, 420As suffer from blown ring lands on the piston before they crack a block. Cast iron is cast iron if you ask me.

Thanks for wret for clearing things up.

PS - This thread needs spell checker, imo. Wow. WTF

 

[Focker420]

Ok now we gettin somewhere thanks to BigRand who is still on topic .If its that close thats its a toss up than i'm keepin the 420a and am gunna go all the way with it because of the fact i have dug the hole already. So i got another question for mods. Whats next i am buying the full turbo set this winter going for stage 3/4 set up and getting pistion and rods during winter but am wondering what im missing such as fuel pump inectors ect. Also i got an safc2 and i got it tuned by some guy he had a dyno to do it but don't know if he tuned it properly? how can i tell if he got the most out of the tuning.?

 

[420a_BOOSTED]

if you really think about it if you build up the 420a motor you have possiblitiys of being jus as fast or faster than a gst.. a gs is given 140 hp stock and a gst it aroung 200.. you take the turbo off the gst its gonna drop to 120 give or take you put that on a 420a your gonna be faster.. 420a boosted

 

[XMasta19]

FYI: you can be faster than a stock gs-t with just a bolt-on turbo kit, no need to have your block built to break the 200whp mark

 

[DSMcrazy3]

FYI: you can be faster than a stock gs-t with just a bolt-on turbo kit, no need to have your block built to break the 200whp mark

Exactly, all cars react differently to some extent, but once you boost a 420a, the performance usually exceeds a stock 4g63t. My kit on 6 psi put out 214 whp/210 tq, while others put out 190-230.

 

[420a_BOOSTED]

well you guys are right but its true thats why turboed gs are faster than stock gst

 

[DSMcrazy3]

well you guys are right but its true thats why turboed gs are faster than stock gst

While your info was correct you left out the why. It's all about compression ratio. RS/GS have a higher compression ratio compared to GS-T/X. Which in turn is why boosting 420a will react better to a certain amount of boost, however is also why you can only go so far on the higher compression pistons.

 

[BigRand]

Ok now we gettin somewhere thanks to BigRand who is still on topic .If its that close thats its a toss up than i'm keepin the 420a and am gunna go all the way with it because of the fact i have dug the hole already. So i got another question for mods. Whats next i am buying the full turbo set this winter going for stage 3/4 set up and getting pistion and rods during winter but am wondering what im missing such as fuel pump inectors ect. Also i got an safc2 and i got it tuned by some guy he had a dyno to do it but don't know if he tuned it properly? how can i tell if he got the most out of the tuning.?

http://www.2gnt.com/nuke/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=145

Thats your list right there, Thank driggs for posting that in another thread.

When it comes to tuning using a SAFC on a NT like our cars, I'll tell you right now you will not see big gains by messing with the stock fuel trims. Whoever tuned it probably already gained the most out of it, and really if your planning on gonig turbo now, I wouldn't even waste any brain power thinking about re-tuning it while its still non-turbo.

Really I shouldn't be answering half of these questions, but I will today, start using that search button and search on 2gnt.com. You will find a lot of info to questions you have already asked, and by finding that info you will have new questions that we will be able to help you with.

For example, I was searching 2gnt.com and came across a post by dr1665 over there, which answered nearly all my questions regarding how a turbo works. Here is what I found

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech101.html

Good luck with your quest to be faster, but if you want help, you have to know where to look, and when to ask. And if you feel like you have to ask first, we'll show you where to look.

 

[dr1665]

Thank driggs for posting that in another thread.

I was searching 2gnt.com and came across a post by dr1665 over there, which answered nearly all my questions regarding how a turbo works.

Heh. I think I'll hit 12,000 posts over there this month.

 

[opie1]

just out of preference. i would try hahn racecraft. ive installed up to stage 3 kit and i was alittle skeptical. a good friend has a bone stock gst and i installed a stage one kit on a customers car at work. my friend was mind blown as well as myself. all i could do is laugh at him. their tech support is great if you have any problems.

 

[RHui_BC]

I just got my car back from the shop...

Don't have time to go into details... but here are some

I have an OLD STAR Turbo kit
Manifold and Turbo are original.
Fully built internals 8.2:1 CPR
Wintec3 Standalone fuel system
550CC Fuel injectors
3" Stainless custom exhaust w/ hi flow cat and magnaflow muffler.

Preliminary results are 270fwhp @ 12psi @ 11.1 AFR and oh man its fun to drive, it pulls.

I am so glad I didn't end up selling my car and going with another platform cause this is fun and puts a smile on my face everytime I drive it. But that's just my opinion .

 

[XMasta19]

wowzer...8.2:1cr huh, ooh and wintec3 ems eh

 

[dr1665]

I am so glad I didn't end up selling my car and going with another platform cause this is fun and puts a smile on my face everytime I drive it. But that's just my opinion .

Awesome. Aren't you also on 2GNT? I think I revcognize "Rhui," but I'm not sure.