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420a to 4g63 Swap Engine Mounts

Posted by DashLaflash, Aug 29, 2011

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  1. DashLaflash

    DashLaflash Proven Member

    286
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    Joined Jul 4, 2007
    Millbury, Massachusetts
    I know this topic has been beaten to death but there is something that has always bothered me. Everyone always says this swap is not feasable because the engines are oriented 180 degrees of each other. In the Honda scene the K-series engines are opposite to the B-series in the same respect (flipped 180 degrees). And yet someone has come up with mounts to put a K-series in a B-series equipped car. The engine sits lower as a result of frame rail clearance on the transmission side but it still works. The Honda swap also requires custom axles, wiring, etc. but the engine we would be swapping is in a chassis that's nearly identical to the turbo model. This would lower the car's center of gravity which has obvious benefits and lets face it DSMs are slowly rusting away. There are many more non turbo cars than there are turbo cars and majority of NTs are super clean. It would be nice if someone could make a set of mounts similar to the K-series ones for around $500. I think this would make it a very feasable swap, assuming that everything else from the turbo model bolts up fine. Another possible issue is the cossmember brace that goes from the core support to the k-member. Its already a very tight fit but I'm sure vassil could make us up a nice chromoly piece :D. I'm sure insurance would be cheaper on a non turbo and the RS is a stripped down model which would save time when building a race car.

    I know the motto on here has always been "just sell it and buy a gst man" but look at the amount of people that want to put the 4g63 into their 420a car. I think it shows a pretty strong market and a chance for some vendors to make a profit. I'm sure it wouldn't be too terribly difficult for a vendor to make a set of mounts especially with their awesome fab skills.

    O well, let the flame war begin between the money conscious and all you die hard 420 fans.
     

    611  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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  2. Boostinsideways

    Boostinsideways Proven Member

    1,124
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    Joined Feb 4, 2011
    Arab, Alabama
    You can just swap the the cross member.

    Its pretty easy... Find a 4g63 car on a junkyard somewhere. Get a power inverter and an electric angle grinder. Cut out the tranmission mount. Weld in project car.

    Just directly swap the k-member.

    Not sure about the rear rollstop. I think we had to move it.

    The driver side mount we just welded in a piece of thick gauge steel. Drilled a hole straight through it and the shock tower. He uses a longer bolt and a not with lock washers and flat washers on both ends of the bolt. It doesn't look OEM, or pretty. Its clear that the engine was swapped to anyone that is familar with a dsm enginebay.

    It too longer to #### with the wiring harness than it did to fabricate mount brackets.


    The reason most would say its better to just buy a 4g63 powered car is because the price difference is usually 500$ or less.

    But the price it would take to switch the engine is easily 2-3 grand. You need a solid running 4g63. Found one? Well while its out of the car might as well do the water pump, balance shaft delete, timing belt, timing components. Okay so assuming you can get a timing component kit, water pump and 4g63 for under 500$.

    Well you need a wiring harness, transmission, axles, mounts, welder, gas, welding wire/sticks, ecu, etc etc.
     

    622  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    · 2G DSM
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  3. Shake_Zulla

    Shake_Zulla Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 30, 2010
    Boise, Idaho
    The problem with this is the chassis is mirrored between the na and the turbo models. You can cut the pieces out of the chassis and switch them but 99% of the time it would be easier to cut the rust out of the turbo and fix it.

    It doesn't, even if you could find some magic transmission to fit under the frame.

    It is. Without hacking into the frame of the na chassis you would have to set the motor at an angle and it's a pretty crappy setup.

    Begin? It hasn't stopped for 16 years now. :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014

    491  0

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    · 2G DSM
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  4. kongo

    kongo Proven Member

    127
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    Joined Jan 8, 2009
    new orleans, Louisiana
    Anyone know what happen with the 420a and EVO 4g63 swap?
     

    384  0

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    · 2G DSM
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  5. Shake_Zulla

    Shake_Zulla Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 30, 2010
    Boise, Idaho
    It doesn't work that well. The serious issues are clearance issues with the hood and you have to cut your firewall to make way for the intake. I would also imagine that their are issues with the trans or at least the axles. This is of course not taking into consideration the wiring and tuning nightmare you will experience and getting all the extra little things to cooperate (ex when the cooling fans should kick on). I do think its funny that people would consider that though, shows how killer the 2g body looks hu? :cool:
     

    491  0

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    · 2G DSM
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  6. 2007mage15

    2007mage15 Probationary Member

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    Joined Aug 30, 2011
    springfield, Missouri
    well i have a 96 eclipse with the 420a but i have antoher 96 eclipse with the turbo motor but its totaled in the rear. couldnt i just straight switch the fron clip?
     
  7. brandonwh64

    brandonwh64 Proven Member

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    Joined Mar 9, 2011
    Chatsworth, Georgia
    There is a thread on DSMtalk (Ive posted it before but cannot find it). It shows a guy do this full swap. He had to cut the frame on the passenger side to allow the 4g63 trans to be able to fit.
     
  8. TWOpointFORliter

    TWOpointFORliter Proven Member

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    Joined Jul 31, 2009
    Crown Point, Indiana

    2K  14

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    11.754 @ 119.060 · 2G DSM
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  9. brandonwh64

    brandonwh64 Proven Member

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    Joined Mar 9, 2011
    Chatsworth, Georgia
    Thanks Jmon! That is the one! He took his time and such but cutting the frame is a must to get the 4g63 to work due to the trans "hump" is on the opposite side on the 420A
     
  10. TWOpointFORliter

    TWOpointFORliter Proven Member

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    Crown Point, Indiana
    I wouldn't say he took his time. I remember when he started the thread. I was on of the first few doubters to post in it. I want to say start to finish it took him 2 weeks, maybe a bit longer. He really knew what he was doing though.
     

    2K  14

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    11.754 @ 119.060 · 2G DSM
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  11. glowryder

    glowryder Proven Member

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    Joined Jan 23, 2004
    des moines, Iowa
    Wow, i just cant believe how incredibly dumb this is.. buy a gst or GSX if you want that engine.. i mean really, what else is different about the car.. NOTHING! there's is absolutely NO reason to swap.. at all..

    I for one am tired of seeing this, can we have like a poll to ban all the people who bring up this stupid swap? its not even a swap, since the car comes factory in one flavor or the other.
     
  12. Shake_Zulla

    Shake_Zulla Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 30, 2010
    Boise, Idaho
    This question is like skid marks in underwear... you will go long periods of time without it but then bam you look down and there it is and you just have to deal with it. The problem is that people don't know that the chassis is different between the 420a and 4g63 so people will continue to think it is an easy swap. After all I thought the same way... 10 years ago... but I searched before I asked :thumb:

    Thats why I couldn't find it... I thought it was on this forum... I was looking for that too :D
     

    491  0

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    · 2G DSM
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  13. DashLaflash

    DashLaflash Proven Member

    286
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    Joined Jul 4, 2007
    Millbury, Massachusetts
    You can do the k-series swap without cutting the frame rails at all. If you research it you will know what im talking about. If you use the gst or gsx transmission and just get some custom mounts it should work. The axles will bolt up fine because the wheel bearings are the same and you would use the gst or gsx transmission. The angle of the axles would just change because you have to mount the engine lower. Of course now its still more practical to buy a gst or gsx but what about the guys with mint non turbo cars or when all of the turbo models are rusted out. I know here in New England they have shock tower rust, wheel well rust, etc. Everyone that tries to swap the 4g63 into a 420a car tries to use engine mounts from a turbo car. I'm talking about starting from scratch and making all new mounts.

    Here's the k-series mounts:Integra K Series Engine Swap Hasport Bracket Photo 6
    Someone could make these but mirrored and obviously for the 4g63.

    Also here's a link to a shop that is putting the evo 4g63 into a gs model: Evo swap eclipse 420a - Page 2
     

    611  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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  14. glowryder

    glowryder Proven Member

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    Joined Jan 23, 2004
    des moines, Iowa
    Ok.. your logic is flawed. so are you saying a 420a eclipse has some magic that it wont rust as fast or as much as a gst or gsx, thus thats why ppl seek them to swap in?

    Theres nothing kool about it , or functional about it at all. but to each their own i guess. if some one want to spend that kinda cash b.c they are too lazy to seek out a decent gst or GSX then so be it.. its really called knowing where to look, theres plenty in TX that are stock high miles with no rust.. But w.e
     
  15. Slo2gen

    Slo2gen Proven Member

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    Joined Apr 26, 2005
    Upstate, South Carolina
    The easiest/best way to swap a 4g63 into a 420a car is to order all the inner fenders from mitsu, cut out the old ones in the RS/GS and weld in the new ones. After that its just a matter of changing out the ENTIRE car harness and bolting things up.
     

    2K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    420 whp · 365.0 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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  16. Shake_Zulla

    Shake_Zulla Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 30, 2010
    Boise, Idaho
    :ohdamn: You do know that the evo motor is different than the 1st and 2nd gen 4g right? I mean you did look at those pics in your link and see that the evo motor faces the same direction as the 420a right? :ohdamn: With the right fabrication skills you can put almost ANY motor into any car... the question is will the end product be worth the time and money. Answer in the 4g63 and 420a is most likely no.
     

    491  0

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    · 2G DSM
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  17. DashLaflash

    DashLaflash Proven Member

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    Joined Jul 4, 2007
    Millbury, Massachusetts
    Oops sorry that link was for the guy that asked about the Evo 4g63 swap, I should have quoted his post. I thought it was cool so I figured I would add it to the thread.

    I wasn't saying that the 420a cars don't rust its just the simple fact that there is a much greater number of them around. Half of the people that posted here talked about how hard it is to swap the shock towers from one car to another :ohdamn:. Not once in my original post did I talk about touching the shock towers. I simply stated you could take a couple pieces of steel and weld them together for engine mounts or make some out of billet aluminum (obviously not that simple but you get the point).
     

    611  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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  18. Shake_Zulla

    Shake_Zulla Proven Member

    503
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    Joined Dec 30, 2010
    Boise, Idaho
    Yeah the only problem with this is once you swap the shock towers your done. If you do the 4g63 swap, once you have takin all that time to get the motor and trans in you are really just getting started with your project. Big things like the wiring harness suck up a lot of time and then you have a bunch of small things like alll the shifting linkage. Swapping the shock towers is a smaller project when compared to the motor swap. If there was an easy cheap way to do the swap chances are manufacturers would have capitalized on it by now... but there isn't.
     

    491  0

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    · 2G DSM
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  19. DashLaflash

    DashLaflash Proven Member

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    Joined Jul 4, 2007
    Millbury, Massachusetts
    Well wouldn't it be possible to just use the turbo wiring harness and ECM? Also shift linkage might cause a problem but do the cables come out of the firewall on the same area? If so you could just use cables from a gst. Then for power steering you would have to switch to electric but that's something you should be considering anyways. The battery will need to be relocated but this cleans up the bay tremendously.
     

    611  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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  20. Shake_Zulla

    Shake_Zulla Proven Member

    503
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    Joined Dec 30, 2010
    Boise, Idaho
    Ok this is just getting stupid. Read this like here... the whole thing. In fact everyone that wants to do this swap read this link FIRST.


    This is the only documented swap I have seen that worked out. So if this seems "easy" for you then do it, if not don't. If you think you have a better way then get off your ass and do it and take pictures and videos to prove it. Otherwise lets stop wasting time on a question that has been asked since the first GS rolled off the line in 95... sorry for the vent but ... :beatentodeath:
     

    491  0

    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    · 2G DSM
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  21. DashLaflash

    DashLaflash Proven Member

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    Joined Jul 4, 2007
    Millbury, Massachusetts
    Alright well let's just leave it there then. Maybe someday I will get bored enough to find a shell and attempt to make some custom mounts.
     

    611  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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