300whp On 450cc Injectors

[IvanPSI]

Ok, so I have searched, and I have seen logs of the 450cc's. I have seen many Honda's running our 450cc's with Turbos and they have dynoed 300whp. My setup, I have a EVO 3 16G, walbro 255lph, FMIC, AFPR. Can I safely acheive 300whp on the stock 450's? I am thinking a SAFC will help as well.

 

[95GSXCO]

You cant compare Honduhs to DSMs! 450's are stock for us they are an upgrade for Honduhs (you should see the honduh guys face when I tell them I have 1600cc and want to upgrade)I maxed out my 450's at only 20 psi 127% DC. I would say NO but anything can happen.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Dsmlink would be better to acheive your goal. Only adjusting fuel trims alone IDK..

 

[toofast82]

Stock motor hondas with turbo usually run no more than 10psi with their compression which 450s are fine. 450s will begin to get high injector duy above 17-18psi.

 

[GSXSixteenG]

You should get in the under 200whp but its hard to say because you won't be able to monitor the duty cycle.

I was running 18psi on my 450's with s16g and safc. So it could be achievable.

pm sent

 

[kittay]

Hondas also will run alot less boost, or run race gas to get the 300hp. With the race gas you can run leaner to make the power..

I honestly would not try running stock injectors! Spend like 2-300$ more, it is well worth it! If you plan on upgrading from the 16g or running E85, I would suggest bigger that way you don't upgrade later.

An SAFC would be fine to tune with. If you want to step up from a piggy back, you may want to look into Ostrich for tuning. It's 1/3 the price of Link. I honestly can't justify spending that much on Link for a 16g setup unless you're going all out gutted style

I run Ostrich on my FPred and my 16g car. I love it!

 

[IvanPSI]

You should get in the under 200whp but its hard to say because you won't be able to monitor the duty cycle.

I was running 18psi on my 450's with s16g and safc. So it could be achievable.

pm sent

Im preety sure I can make alot more than 200whp...

From a faq I looked up on here, 450cc injectors at 80% duty cycle make 275 to the crank, and at 100% duty cycle they make 345hp.

 

[GSXSixteenG]

I said upper 200. I was implying around 275whp or so.

 

[RyAn007]

450's are capable of mid 200 whp numbers but to be honest, it is a waste of time because it will take too much work, of course you could run meth and all of that with 450's. But how about get bigger injectors and you could be way over the 350whp mark pretty easily with a good tune.

 

[92awddsm]

I said upper 200. I was implying around 275whp or so.

You said under 200whp.

"You should get in the under 200whp but its hard to say because you won't be able to monitor the duty cycle."

 

[Bud92gsx]

He meant upper or mid 200's..

 

[daren_p]

Are we talking pump gas? Do you have an adjustable FPR? What fuel pump are you running? Are you running meth injection? Are you okay with seeing over 100% IDC? (normally should keep it under 80%)

These all come into play, but on normal pump gas, no don't think 300whp will be achieveable & still be "safe"

 

[Bud92gsx]

There is almost no way to acheive 300 on 92 octane?

 

[toofast82]

I dont see it being possible unless you had some built ass motor and low boost. 550s are almost pushing it for 300 imho

 

[Bud92gsx]

Right. But let's say you run 20 psi on 93 octane. It will probly only put you to around 270 or so awhp, right?

 

[92awddsm]

There is almost no way to acheive 300 on 92 octane?

Yea there is. Just not with 450cc injectors

 

[RyAn007]

I have seen alot of high numbers with 93 octane, it just takes a little bit more to pull of, but its not necessarily hard to acheive over 350whp on pump

 

[Bud92gsx]

E85 is my hero..

 

[RyAn007]

I agree, E85 is the best fuel that can be picked up locally and isnt rare like c16.

 

[kittay]

There's no way he could run E85 though with those injectors

He would be looking for gas that would allow him to lean out, not require dumping extra fuel

Doesn't meth/ nitrous also permit for leaning?

 

[H82lose91]

Maybe if he ran two sets! =)

 

[RyAn007]

I never reccomended e-85, it is just good haha, but yes, meth and nitrous do allow you to lean out more because of the lowered intake temps, but nitrous is to expensive and unreliable compared to meth's capabilities.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Increase the fuel pressure? My brother runs my 1g 450s on this tt stealth at the stealths stock fuel pressure 43.5 like the 2g's. The 450's turn into 550's =P

 

[RyAn007]

You can increase fuel pressure but over all that is not the correct method, or a reliable method of feeding your engine the fuel it needs, making injectors flow more than they are supposed to. Im not sure that your injectors will be the same as 550's with out hurting something so I wouldnt reccomend this way, just go and buy some evo injectors at least which are around a hundred bucks used and get some sort of piggy back tuner, or something a little more adjustable.

 

[delta448]

[Injector flow rate (in lbs/hr) * percent duty cycle] / BSFC = horsepower supported per injector
To convert cc/min to lbs/hr divide by 10.5.

Brake Specific Fuel Consumption is defined as the fuel flow rate divided by the power produced. An engine with lower BSFC is more efficient and requires less fuel to produce the same power. Higher compression and naturally aspirated engines are inherently more efficient and have BSFC numbers around 0.5, most OEM turbocharged applications have BSFC numbers above 0.6.

An engine with an efficient BSFC of 0.5 running 450cc injectors at 43.5psi base fuel pressure would require approximately 88% duty cycle to reach 300bhp. Factor in the Honda's low FWD drivetrain loss at let's say a fairly generous 12% and it would need precisely 100% duty cycle to hit 300whp.

So in short, yes it is possible that an efficient engine could produce 300whp using four 450cc injectors and without raising fuel pressure.