420A 2gNT auto to manual swap

[Jjackso78]

I just recently got a rs eclipse with a 420a and some did the manual and didn’t do it right I can’t get the car started by key and I’ve seen ppl cut two wires off a connector and I’ve seen the post about the wire running from the starter relay and the directions ain’t to clear to me or I’m over thinking it any help would be much appreciated

 

[DirtMcGirt]

2GNT.com - ATMT

2gnt.com

Courtesy of 2gnt.com
Detailed write-up with plenty of relevant pictures. Just go step by step and make sure that what the write-up states, matches your vehicle. Don't assume anything. Slow and steady.

 

[luv2rallye]

It makes a difference as to the year and whether it has the factory theft alarm.

 

[electrohead]

I have a small question. Regarding the wiring of the clutch safety switch to the black/yellow wire on the starter relay, do I cut the wire to only have the clutch hooked up to it, or do I just tee off and keep the rest of the circuit intact?
Not trying to hijack a thread, but I figured I'd ask here, since it's related to doing the manual swap.

 

[luv2rallye]

TOTALLY depends on whether you have the factory theft alarm AND whether your starter wiring harness is from the MT or AT. It's wiring is very differently and starter relay can have an opposite operation depending.
Did your car have the AT to MT swap?

 

[electrohead]

My car is auto. I'm in the middle of the conversion. I'm following the guide on 2gnt, and it says to wire the clutch pedal to the black wire with yellow stripe. I just want to know if I need to just tie into the circuit, or cut the wire to just include the clutch switch. My car does have the factory alarm, and looking at the Haynes manual diagram, it looks like cruise control (already removed-no room with custom intake manifold) and efi (possibly anti-theft fuel cut?) are in that circuit.

 

[luv2rallye]

Ok I just looked at the 2gNT ATMT writeup (link above) and they've got it wrong (which now explains to me why I've had literally hundreds of people over the last 19 years asking me about problems they're having getting the starter to work on this conversion).

Their writeup says "Run a 16-18 gage wire from the green wire with black stripe <on the clutch safety switch> down to the starter relay and connect it to the small black wire with yellow stripe. ..."

Well since the clutch safety switch is normally closed (with clutch pedal up) but then opens when you press the clutch down, that will never put the necessary ground on the starter relay (to activate it) when the clutch is pressed. The ground is only there when the pedal is up, which is opposite to the way it's supposed to work for safety. So with their wiring, you could only start the engine when the clutch pedal is up and never with it down!

BTW. What year is your DSM? Because the 95-96 has a different starter relay than the 97-99 however I think my solution below should still work.

For your situation (AT harness and factory theft alarm), the simplest solution is to just do both of the following:
1) Remove (unplug) the starter relay and leave it off.
2) Connect a wire from the starter relay's large black-red (pin 3) which only has voltage when the key is turned to the Start position (test with voltmeter or light bulb to identify it), and connect it to the starter relay's large black-yellow (pin 5) which goes to the starter solenoid. [Don't connect to the small black-yellow (pin 1). And don't connect from the other large red-black (pin 2) which has voltage all
the time (test with voltmeter or light bulb to identify it).]

The wire needs to be soldered so it doesn't work loose from car vibrations. However you can make a jumper wire that has terminal spade lugs soldered on the ends and plug it into the correct relay socket pins (like the red jumper I made shown here: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/power-window-operation-without-key-for-2g.274267/).

This will still allow your factory theft alarm to work. The only tradeoff is now the starter will work whether the clutch pedal is up or down. Many people actually disconnect the clutch safety switch so they can start the engine with the clutch engaged (pedal up) and in neutral to reduce crank walk possibility. So now you would have the same thing.

 

[electrohead]

That makes sense. I'm trying to figure out how they got it to work with the wiring they showed. My only guess is swapping in a MT starter relay. But, according to the Haynes manual, the AT relay is set up so that terminals 1 and 3 are the coil, and 4 and 5 are the NO switch. The MT relay is set up where terminals 1 and 2 are the coil, and 3 and 4 are the NC switch. So it seems that, without physically checking it, the pin locations are different (IF the schematic isn't totally accurate).
Glad I went with my gut instinct and ask, and not just unnecessarily cut onto wiring.
I would prefer to have the clutch safety switch work as designed (I'm all about the what-ifs). I guess I'll take a quick look at the clutch switch and see if I can come up with something. If not, oh well. Lol.

 

[luv2rallye]

Haynes and Chiltons are famous for being wrong. I've got the real Mitsubishi factory wiring manuals. The way it works from the factory is both the AT and MT use the same relay (with the coil on pins 1 and 3). However the wiring hook up is totally different.

The AT uses the NO pins 2 and 5 with pin 2 going to the battery and pin 5 to the starter. So the relay activates to engage the starter. The theft alarm circuitry (and its relay) can prevent the relay from activating via pins 1 and 3.

The MT uses the NC pins 2 and 4, and then with 2 and 3 going to the ignition key Start position, and the NC pin 4 (note it's not NO pin 5) to the starter. Pin 1 goes to the clutch safety switch in parallel with a NO theft alarm starter relay both to ground. So in the MT the NC relay doesn't activate at all to engage the starter - it only activates to disable the starter (via the clutch safety switch or theft alarm starter relay)! That's why I said it's way easier to just leave the relay out and jumper it. However if you really want the clutch safety switch to work properly you can wire it to be like the factory.

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[electrohead]

Thank you for all this info. I was thinking of using a NO push button switch in place of the original clutch safety and tying it into the relay (via the 2gnt writeup) to simplify gaining clutch pedal safety functionality.
I know I'm overcomplicating something that would be easier to just bypass. I guess I'm a bit OCD in wanting something working as originally intended, just in case i ever sell the car (one of the most highly unlikely scenarios, given the money spent and sentimental value. Lol).