2g Fmic

[daren_p]

Well I need to get a fmic for my 2g. Currently I have an evoIII turbo but I might be upgrading to a t04b so I need something that will flow 900 cfm I believe. Now I'm looking at the Slowboy racing kit, since I want one that has the short route pipeing & it looks like alot of guys are running this kit & are happy with it. So can anyone tell me what this kit flows? & does it involve alot of cutting to the front bumper (both the inner support & the front outer cover) & what about where the pipes go through the rad support, are there already holes there or do you have to cut them out? Do you have to move/modify alot of stuff to get this to fit? (I've got a 2g, 5 speed, air cond,fwd) Picks would help alot. Are there any other options out there that I should be looking at, better flowing, easier install etc. The slowboy price of 879 seems pretty good to me.

 

[Tallen]

Here we go. First thing is that you can lower the price by selling your stock foglights on Ebay, because they will not fit. Neither will your coolant overflow bottle. I suggest using an Mitsu Expo/Eagle Summit bottle. It has the same plug as the stock 2G bottle, unless your car does not have a plug on the stock bottle, in which case get a Mitsu Mirage or Galant bottle (or whatever yo scrounge at the junkyard).
Here's the Expo bottle on my car:

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http://junior.apk.net/~szabaga/IM000746.jpg
You could always do what most people do and mount the stock bottle where the SMIC used to be, but its not quite as cool.

You have to cut some metal out of the car beside the radiator and coaxe the powersteering cooler lines out of the way a little. For a 16G you will need a FMIC J-Pipe. For a T04B, you need nothing. The IC itself is some 1000ci core wise, it's friggin huge. Unsure of flow, but this thing will laugh at a T04B. Over the stock system you save 2-3 feet of piping, a typical FMIC setup you save 3-4 feet, and a Greedy FMIC setup you save nearly 5-6 feet of pipe! I measured but cannot recall the exact #'s.
The front bumper cutting is cake and you will now have an $879 front bumper!

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Comes with T-bolts, couplers, even TB bolts! Install is not the easiest, but no Short Route kit will be. I am very pleased with the decision I made!

 

[daren_p]

Hmmm, that looks really sweet. Theres no way of keeping the factory headlights, what about any of the other short route kits? Anyone else got some pics of the install/final setup?

 

[Tallen]

With enough cutting you could make the fogs fit...

 

[AmpleEclipse]

I just want to say BRAVO to tallen for such an amazing post. I appreciate when somone who is knowledgable about a subject actally takes the time to explain it to someone who has a question. Thanks alot -matt

 

[Tallen]

Well damn, thanks!
Nice to be able to smile when you have a cold!

 

[doug]

Agreed-- nice post, Tallen. What did you use to cut your bumper cover?

Another, albeit pricier, option is this:
http://dvdtfab.com/2gstreetkit.htm
I've ordered it and hope to be installing it in a couple of weeks.

 

[GPTourer]

Hahn has a nice sized kit, not an all out design that might be better suited for to4b levels, and you can keep your foglights - for a similar price.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

The AGP kit comes with a new coolant overflow and the dvdtfab kit doesn't require to replace it.

 

[leet]

Agreed-- nice post, Tallen. What did you use to cut your bumper cover?

Another, albeit pricier, option is this:
http://dvdtfab.com/2gstreetkit.htm
I've ordered it and hope to be installing it in a couple of weeks.

Any bumper work I've done I have used a cutting wheel (pneumatic). Works wonders and since it is so compact, it is easily maneuverable.

 

[Victory]

I've posted this somewhere before, but I'd be glad pass along this information for those reading this thread.

First off short route piping is not the end all here. We spend so much time trying to improve the quality of airflow through the motor and blow it when it comes to intercooler end tank design. Nearly all short-route piping kits on the market cause excess turbulence and thus backpressure due to their square poorly designed end tanks. Obviously I’m not pointing at the pipes themselves, but the manner in which the air must travel to shorten the route to the intake. The end tanks causes all that pressure your great new turbo is producing to “pile up” so to speak. Think of water being sprayed against a wall, that’s what your air is doing. Bottom line your not making as much power as you could, spool up is worse off and you spent a lot of money on an inferior product. Keep in mind, pressure drop is not decided by the intercooler core by itself but the entire system starting from the time it leaves the turbo to the time it enters the intake manifold. Every aspect in the design of the kit counts.

Secondly, the core pictured there is a Garrett core. You can tell by the thickness of the charge tubes. They are wide and very restrictive to air reaching your radiator. We tested these cores. Sold about ten kits with them on both 1 and 2G cars. Result. 1G cars would flat out over heat. 2G cars even with "wide mouth front fascia" would ride the edge. Our 1G with a wide mouth kit worked but have you ever seen how large the opening was. Back to the 2G results. One customer, his car is pictured strapped on the dyno under the 2G kit pics., complained that his car worked well with the new kit but would ride the edge of beginning to overheat from time to time. How does this affect performance? Even if the car doesn’t appear to be running hot, through data logging with an AEM we found engine temps would rise to a level (or be very close) where the car must pull timing (using a stock ECU). I believe it’s somewhere around 225 degrees. Pull timing…lose power. BTW, we’ve tested this core on both the Turbo Trix car and Curt Browns car. Curt too complained that the IC with the Garrett core made his car overheat somewhat. He loved the end tank design we sell but was disappointed to see the car overheating. It should be noted both cars ran 9’s with our set up. We obviously stopped using the Garrett core and went back to using what originally made our kits successful.

Hope this information is of help.

Scott R Belcastro
Victory Performance Equipment

 

[WhiteCloud]

Great post, Tallen. I've also never seen an HKS SSQ bov recirc'd...that is what I'm looking at, right? Innovative

 

[highboosted98]

Dose anyone know where i can see a 2g slowboys fmic kit on a talon

 

[doug]

I've also never seen an HKS SSQ bov recirc'd...

Really? It's pretty common-- you have to buy their "recirculation kit" though.

 

[Awdboost]

I have the DV/DT fab FMIC on my car.. With the FMIC I ran a 11.544 @ 128 with a stock motor, stock intake manifold and just 272/272 cams. The kit is very well put together, and has them best entanks i've seen so far from our cars. Take look at the website. There is no cutting just because you'll remove the bumper and the supports as well. Install was very easy and I've had two other kits. This is the best I've try so far.

 

[Skunked tsi]

I've posted this somewhere before, but I'd be glad pass along this information for those reading this thread.

First off short route piping is not the end all here. We spend so much time trying to improve the quality of airflow through the motor and blow it when it comes to intercooler end tank design. Nearly all short-route piping kits on the market cause excess turbulence and thus backpressure due to their square poorly designed end tanks. Obviously I’m not pointing at the pipes themselves, but the manner in which the air must travel to shorten the route to the intake. The end tanks causes all that pressure your great new turbo is producing to “pile up” so to speak. Think of water being sprayed against a wall, that’s what your air is doing. Bottom line your not making as much power as you could, spool up is worse off and you spent a lot of money on an inferior product. Keep in mind, pressure drop is not decided by the intercooler core by itself but the entire system starting from the time it leaves the turbo to the time it enters the intake manifold. Every aspect in the design of the kit counts.

Secondly, the core pictured there is a Garrett core. You can tell by the thickness of the charge tubes. They are wide and very restrictive to air reaching your radiator. We tested these cores. Sold about ten kits with them on both 1 and 2G cars. Result. 1G cars would flat out over heat. 2G cars even with "wide mouth front fascia" would ride the edge. Our 1G with a wide mouth kit worked but have you ever seen how large the opening was. Back to the 2G results. One customer, his car is pictured strapped on the dyno under the 2G kit pics., complained that his car worked well with the new kit but would ride the edge of beginning to overheat from time to time. How does this affect performance? Even if the car doesn’t appear to be running hot, through data logging with an AEM we found engine temps would rise to a level (or be very close) where the car must pull timing (using a stock ECU). I believe it’s somewhere around 225 degrees. Pull timing…lose power. BTW, we’ve tested this core on both the Turbo Trix car and Curt Browns car. Curt too complained that the IC with the Garrett core made his car overheat somewhat. He loved the end tank design we sell but was disappointed to see the car overheating. It should be noted both cars ran 9’s with our set up. We obviously stopped using the Garrett core and went back to using what originally made our kits successful.

Hope this information is of help.

Scott R Belcastro
Victory Performance Equipment

Good information its nice to hear information from someone with experience fast cars and proof, pretaining to such a product other then hear say which we get alot of on these boards.
Thanks, Tyler

 

[daren_p]

I have the DV/DT fab FMIC on my car.. With the FMIC I ran a 11.544 @ 128 with a stock motor, stock intake manifold and just 272/272 cams. The kit is very well put together, and has them best entanks i've seen so far from our cars. Take look at the website. There is no cutting just because you'll remove the bumper and the supports as well. Install was very easy and I've had two other kits. This is the best I've try so far.

That DV/DT ic looks pretty good. When you say you remove the bumper & supports you mean the inner bumper? So then you have no solid bumper under the front body kit, is this a good idea?

 

[Lunch_Box]

That DV/DT ic looks pretty good. When you say you remove the bumper & supports you mean the inner bumper? So then you have no solid bumper under the front body kit, is this a good idea?

It is not a good idea but anyone that has a FMIC either has to hack the hell out of there bumper or just remove it completely. If you are worried then buy an intercooler that isn't as high so no or little bumper cutting is needed.

 

[Awdboost]

It is not a good idea but anyone that has a FMIC either has to hack the hell out of there bumper or just remove it completely. If you are worried then buy an intercooler that isn't as high so no or little bumper cutting is needed.

What he said. :laugh:

The FMIC will be a much better bumper than the original.

 

[Tallen]

Secondly, the core pictured there is a Garrett core. You can tell by the thickness of the charge tubes. They are wide and very restrictive to air reaching your radiator.

Good post and nice job pointing out what most people don't know, everyone alwys assumes its a Spearco. I thought ahead and mounted a slimline pusher fan between the IC and condenser, haven't had a touch of overheating even in 80's weather. I'm running water wetter and distilled water too.

Yup thats the HKS recirced. Its quieter than stock I swear.

 

[red91gst]

I've posted this somewhere before, but I'd be glad pass along this information for those reading this thread.

First off short route piping is not the end all here. We spend so much time trying to improve the quality of airflow through the motor and blow it when it comes to intercooler end tank design. Nearly all short-route piping kits on the market cause excess turbulence and thus backpressure due to their square poorly designed end tanks. Obviously I’m not pointing at the pipes themselves, but the manner in which the air must travel to shorten the route to the intake. The end tanks causes all that pressure your great new turbo is producing to “pile up” so to speak. Think of water being sprayed against a wall, that’s what your air is doing. Bottom line your not making as much power as you could, spool up is worse off and you spent a lot of money on an inferior product. Keep in mind, pressure drop is not decided by the intercooler core by itself but the entire system starting from the time it leaves the turbo to the time it enters the intake manifold. Every aspect in the design of the kit counts.

Secondly, the core pictured there is a Garrett core. You can tell by the thickness of the charge tubes. They are wide and very restrictive to air reaching your radiator. We tested these cores. Sold about ten kits with them on both 1 and 2G cars. Result. 1G cars would flat out over heat. 2G cars even with "wide mouth front fascia" would ride the edge. Our 1G with a wide mouth kit worked but have you ever seen how large the opening was. Back to the 2G results. One customer, his car is pictured strapped on the dyno under the 2G kit pics., complained that his car worked well with the new kit but would ride the edge of beginning to overheat from time to time. How does this affect performance? Even if the car doesn’t appear to be running hot, through data logging with an AEM we found engine temps would rise to a level (or be very close) where the car must pull timing (using a stock ECU). I believe it’s somewhere around 225 degrees. Pull timing…lose power. BTW, we’ve tested this core on both the Turbo Trix car and Curt Browns car. Curt too complained that the IC with the Garrett core made his car overheat somewhat. He loved the end tank design we sell but was disappointed to see the car overheating. It should be noted both cars ran 9’s with our set up. We obviously stopped using the Garrett core and went back to using what originally made our kits successful.

Hope this information is of help.

Scott R Belcastro
Victory Performance Equipment

Scott,

Its odd to hear of such overheating problems, we've never had any of our customers complain of overheating. Likewise, I have had the kit on two of my personal cars and have never had a problem, even with only the one stock fan inplace. Keep in mind this is a daily drivin car. Speaking of this, it seems odd that Curt had over heating problems when the car was a track only car. If it overheats after a pass or two, it may not be the FMIC design at fault. Maybe this is why Curt always "toped off" the overflow after each run, persistent headgasket issues. I also have to disagree with your endtank design discussion. The endtank design is important to the performance of a front mount kit, this is way we've spent alot of time researching and testing our design. The turn in the endtank is no more sever than that of the factory TB elbow, compressor outlet, or the intake manifold itself for that matter. Our test have shown minimal pressure drop, as well as a consistant cfm rating across both the 1g and 2g cores.

On another note, its fairly easy to keep the fog lights in place, especially on the 97-99 cars. Simply trim the brakets for the lights on the inside to clear the FMIC, then bolt them on overtop of the FMIC flange.

Nate
SBR

 

[Awdboost]

I had overheating problems with my FMIC.. I was on the S-AFC and I switched to DSMLINK and it went away?? I must of been too lean?? But I don't think it was all the FMIC. I had to been my tuning.

 

[Victory]

Scott,

Its odd to hear of such overheating problems, we've never had any of our customers complain of overheating. Likewise, I have had the kit on two of my personal cars and have never had a problem, even with only the one stock fan inplace. Keep in mind this is a daily drivin car. Speaking of this, it seems odd that Curt had over heating problems when the car was a track only car. If it overheats after a pass or two, it may not be the FMIC design at fault. Maybe this is why Curt always "toped off" the overflow after each run, persistent headgasket issues. I also have to disagree with your endtank design discussion. The endtank design is important to the performance of a front mount kit, this is way we've spent alot of time researching and testing our design. The turn in the endtank is no more sever than that of the factory TB elbow, compressor outlet, or the intake manifold itself for that matter. Our test have shown minimal pressure drop, as well as a consistant cfm rating across both the 1g and 2g cores.



Nate
SBR

As I said, overheating may not always be immediately noticeable by your in car temp gauge alone. Real world datalogging from the horse’s mouth (sensors) tell me what's really going on. I'd love to say it was otherwise, but nearly every customer we had complained of running hot with a Garrett core. Some input from beta testers with DSM Link backed up the results.

As for Kurt Brown. I'm aware of his head gasket issues, but the only thing he changed, so I was told, was the intercooler. The previous one was the same thickness and width. Actually the other core may have been a few inches wider. As I've said we've since kept our original core design that worked every bit as well as the Garrett cores and we now have zero customer complaints. Outstanding performance with zero complaints makes for happy customers, works for me.

Nate, the turn I'm referring to is the inlet/outlet on the 1G and the outlet on the 2G on your kits. (BTW, my reference was never directed toward any one company) The air enters the end tank perpendicular to the direction where the air must travel and hence causes a great deal of turbulence. In addition to our on car testing we will be sending a competitors assembly along with ours to an independent facility for testing soon. Not another shop, but an actual company that deals with fluid dynamics so that we can continue to improve our designs. BTW, we had a Garrett engineer in California look over our end tank designs prior to releasing them. All I’ll say is that we receive high marks for the design. For another explanation on air flow follow this link: http://www.bankspower.com/tech_howairflows.cfm
I ran across this very well written article written in layman’s terms about a month ago.

I don’t mean to get off topic but we will be testing another innovation next month which we feel will further improve our already proven end tank designs. If the idea works it will be implemented to all of our intercoolers going forward. I’m so excited about it I can barely keep myself from letting the cat out of the bag.



Scott
Victory Performance Equipment

Always looking to unlock hidden power.

 

[Victory]

I think I've got an HKS re-circ. kit from a long time ago sitting in storage. It's new. Free to anyone who's willing to pay shipping of $15.00.

I have to confirm it is the HKS kit.

Scott
VPE

 

[Lunch_Box]

The air enters the end tank perpendicular to the direction where the air must travel and hence causes a great deal of turbulence.

Scott
Victory Performance Equipment

Always looking to unlock hidden power.

Doesn't your 1G race FMIC have a perpendicular inlet and outlet?