2G AWD ABS Removal Help!!!

[jabinya]

I've read the vfaq for the ABS removal on a 1G and wanted to remove mine from my 95 2G. I would imagine the process is similar but the lines are different. Found a non proportioning valve for a 1G and was wondering if that would work on my 2G?

After removing the ABS unit, the room would be used for a oil cooler.

Anybody done this on a 2G?

 

[jtmcinder]

The split-point of 2G prop valves is around 350 psi w/o ABS and around 425 w/ ABS. The drop-off above the split is 25% for both. If 1G prop valves are similar, then you'll be OK, but I, personally, wouldn't do it.

Note, also, that the valve you want to use depends on what else has been done to the car. If the suspension is roughly stock, then you really need to get a valve from a car w/o ABS, since you want the lower split-point (because of weight transfer during braking with no ABS to act as a safety net). In contrast, if your car is lowered, especially if you kept all the extra front camber and, maybe, deleted some rear camber, too, then you want to figure out a way to retain your w/ ABS valve. Why? Because you want to send more pressure to the rear, as a lowered 2G with lots more front camber than rear camber will always lock a front first. (Ask me how I know.)

I've been working on a design for a very simple deleter for 2G ABS. This would be a set of connectors that would replace the ABS unit, itself. All of the brake lines would remain as they were and, therefore, the original prop valve would be kept. Obviously, my car is lowered, with three times as much front camber as rear, which is why I want to do this. My ABS hasn't worked for years. It's ballast in a very bad place.

- Jtoby

 

[cait sith]

You have a DENSO abs unit, which is better than the 97-99 Bosch unit. It's actually worth keeping.

I fit a 13 row oil cooler in front of the ABS unit, which is the size of an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper. Try angling it before ripping decent working items out.

 

[jtmcinder]

Interesting. Some people hate the Denso and love the Bosch. Others hate the Bosch and love the Denso. Still others hate both.

The one type of person I've never met is that who loves them both.

I thought the Bosch in my 97 was fine. It's just too expensive to fix.

- Jtoby

 

[jabinya]

Well, the ABS light was on the first day I got the car. I have since removed the ABS ECU, and fuse. I'm not to fimiliar with brake systems so I'm glad I asked before I dug into this mod. Im still riding at stock height and dont have any plans to lower the car.

I've been working on a design for a very simple deleter for 2G ABS. This would be a set of connectors that would replace the ABS unit, itself. All of the brake lines would remain as they were and, therefore, the original prop valve would be kept. Obviously, my car is lowered, with three times as much front camber as rear, which is why I want to do this. My ABS hasn't worked for years. It's ballast in a very bad place.

- Jtoby

I would be interested in the deleter once you complete the design!

I fit a 13 row oil cooler in front of the ABS unit, which is the size of an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper. Try angling it before ripping decent working items out.

I pickup a unused Greddy Trust cooler for a killer price. It measures 9x13x2. I've seen pics here of people angling the cooler to install but I would like maximum airflow if possible. Due to the size I might have to angle it even if I remove the ABS unit. or just place it in front of the radiator.

Thanks for the info guys!

 

[Nanan]

I've been working on a design for a very simple deleter for 2G ABS. This would be a set of connectors that would replace the ABS unit, itself. All of the brake lines would remain as they were and, therefore, the original prop valve would be kept. Obviously, my car is lowered, with three times as much front camber as rear, which is why I want to do this. My ABS hasn't worked for years. It's ballast in a very bad place.

- Jtoby

So you are saying that on a lowered car sticking to the ABS prop valve is better then going to a non-abs unit when deleting the ABS controler?

I had to go without the ABS trigger rings when I got new rear axles due to lack of avalability of abs axles...

 

[jtmcinder]

Yes. If the car is lowered, I'd keep the higher split point, especially if you are set up for autocrossing or road-racing. Even with the ABS prop valve, with the amounts of front and rear camber I run, it's always a front that locks first.

- Jtoby

 

[Nanan]

Cool thanks for the info.

I have yet to manage a lockup of any of my tires on dry stuff sence I put on the wagner thermal quiet pads, I also put the new tires on at the same time so that could also help.

I really don't AutoX much anymore, the local SCCA club moved the local race spot about 30 miles away from where it was before so meh.

As for the ABS delete, umm wonder how hard it would be to fab up some hardlines or something to ditch the stupid box.

 

[SILV BLT]

I just bought the supplies to get rid of mine today. 2 3 way unions, 6 fittings, a tubing bender and a double flaring tool. I'm just going to bend the original lines into a 3 way. There's two lines coming out of the master cylinder. Think of those as the left and right lines. Each line needs to be "T"ed. So you'll have the line coming in from the master cylinder into the 3 way, then one line going out to the correct front brake caliper and another line going out to the correct side on the proportioning valve. Keep in mind though, this will give the car a bit more rear braking power, but I always thought that my GS was horribly over biased anyways, and now I've got the dual piston calipers on the TSi, so it'll only be worse. If need be I can switch to a less grabby rear pad to fine tune.

 

[ForceFedRed]

I've eliminated mine on my 96 GSX, it was very simple with Mitsubishi factory parts. IIRC it was less than $100 for all the lines and non-ABS prop valve.

Now keep in mind here, jtmcinder has a wealth of knowledge in the brake bias area, take his words to heart.

I do not autocross or road race, so I opted for the bolt in prop valve (see: lower split point) and completely getting rid of the lines running to the front left corner of my car. I have not noticed any bias problem, but again, my use isn't in much of a way that I would notice it.

I installed the parts with the engine removed, it didn't take long at all and was as I stated before, simple. YMMV with an engine and transmixer in the way.

You basically take out the old lines and prop valve and install the new stuff in its new location. The rear brake lines fit right up to the new prop valve, and the new lines listed below are all a perfect fit to the proper port.

Here is a list of part numbers you need.

MB895931 Non-ABS proportioning valve.
MB895894 Tube from the new prop valve to the right wheel well.
MB895895 Tube from the new prop valve to the left wheel well.
MB895892 Tube from the master cylinder to the new prop valve, primary.
MB895893 Tuve from the master cylinder to the new prop valve, secondary.

Here are a few pics of the completed project.
Non-ABS prop valve

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Less cluttered without all the lines to the front left corner of the car.

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Sorry the pictures aren't better, these are all I have right now.

Hope this helps with your decision.

JRM

 

[justcjnow]

what is the unit under the passenger side foot area?

 

[jtmcinder]

what is the unit under the passenger side foot area?

That's the computer that controls the systems. That can go, as can the G-sensor under the radio and all the associated wiring.

- Jtoby

 

[redeclipse7782]

I've eliminated mine on my 96 GSX, it was very simple with Mitsubishi factory parts. IIRC it was less than $100 for all the lines and non-ABS prop valve.

Now keep in mind here, jtmcinder has a wealth of knowledge in the brake bias area, take his words to heart.

I do not autocross or road race, so I opted for the bolt in prop valve (see: lower split point) and completely getting rid of the lines running to the front left corner of my car. I have not noticed any bias problem, but again, my use isn't in much of a way that I would notice it.

I installed the parts with the engine removed, it didn't take long at all and was as I stated before, simple. YMMV with an engine and transmixer in the way.

You basically take out the old lines and prop valve and install the new stuff in its new location. The rear brake lines fit right up to the new prop valve, and the new lines listed below are all a perfect fit to the proper port.

Here is a list of part numbers you need.

MB895931 Non-ABS proportioning valve.
MB895894 Tube from the new prop valve to the right wheel well.
MB895895 Tube from the new prop valve to the left wheel well.
MB895892 Tube from the master cylinder to the new prop valve, primary.
MB895893 Tuve from the master cylinder to the new prop valve, secondary.

Great post, question for you, was it difficult to break the lines free? I am going to cut most of the lines if I need to, but I was wondering if it was difficult removing the lines from the master cylinder, or the rear break lines where they connect to the abs props valve. I dont want to damage them on removal/installation. Also where there any sealing issues?

 

[Jon Lane]

Somewhat on topic: Jtoby, can you confirm that increasing caliper piston area in front also moves bias to the rear?

 

[jtmcinder]

No, I can't because it would do the opposite.

The fluid is under pressure, so the units are force-per-area (e.g., psi). When it gets to the piston, you multiply the line pressure by the area of the piston to get the clamping force, since the area units then cancel. So, a larger piston produces more clamping force for a given line pressure, not less. So larger front pistons would move bias to the front.

- Jtoby

 

[Jon Lane]

Oops, thanks for the correction. So on a lowered car, you'd want to increase the rear bias by roughly how much?

 

[ForceFedRed]

Great post, question for you, was it difficult to break the lines free? I am going to cut most of the lines if I need to, but I was wondering if it was difficult removing the lines from the master cylinder, or the rear break lines where they connect to the abs props valve. I dont want to damage them on removal/installation. Also where there any sealing issues?

I had no issues with any of the lines, the key is to use the proper tools. Line wrenches make a world of difference when doing this type of work.

Make sure there is no dirt in the flare fittings and they should seal just fine, though I can't tell you a torque number. Snug +1 flat should be plenty, I usually use German torque, guten tight.

Hope this helps,

JRM

 

[jtmcinder]

Well, if you trusted the split point that Mitsu used, you could calculate how much less weight transfer is happening due to the lowering and look for the right valve and/or right pistons, but I'm more inclined to throw up my hands and get an adjustable prop-valve. This might not be optimal, but I'm mostly interested in experimenting (since trying to win just gets depressing) and I'd like to get some real experience with different settings. An adjustable valve seemed better than five different sets of pads.

What might be much better is to take the route suggested by TCE Todd: get some grippier rear pads. EBC greens or R4-Ss in the front and Metal Masters in the rear would be one option, not that I have the mu values in front of me to make sure I'm not being an idiot. But you get the idea.

- Jtoby

 

[greathuskie]

any updated pictures on how to do this?

 

[JFZERO ECLIPSE]

I was also wondering about pics of before and after, and also of what can be removed....

Also under the hood there is a spot in the fuse panel that says ABS, but yet there are no metal prongs or anything like wiring that belongs to that area any ideas?

 

[turbosax2]

Also under the hood there is a spot in the fuse panel that says ABS, but yet there are no metal prongs or anything like wiring that belongs to that area any ideas?

My 99 is the same. There is no wiring leading to the 10A spot, just the 50A spot.

 

[black97spyder]

Does anybody have any pictures of the 2g abs removal that they could post? I just bought the STM 2g abs delete kit and was wanting some pictures as reference to how I need to route the lines and to which part of the prop. Valve.

Thanks!

 

[okm12346]

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[black97spyder]

Thank you okm12346!! Do you happen to have pictures of how the lines are routed under the hood??