Resolved 1g Awd Energy suspension full kit / front subframe bushings

[AWD-Tony]

If it were me I'd completely disassemble and clean it all up. How many 10mm sockets did you find?

Haha no luck with extra 10mm. Yeah I’m going to clean and paint it. That’s the reason why I removed it.

That kit doesn't come with a bushing for that piece. I think you'd have to get a new one.

Ok. It’s not hard to get to so we’ll see.

Thanks fellas!!

 

[AWD-Tony]

FYI. Seems like these are getting scarce. JNZ is out of stock. Energy suspension says 5-8 weeks to ship. Looks like Extremepsi has them.

 

[XC92]

I realize that this thread is nearly 2 months old but I've been researching replacement bushings for the front end of my '92 Talon AWD, and in case this wasn't resolved in the back and forth above, the way it works is that the front crossmember uses 2 bushings on either. This is the front-most subframe member and the one with the semi-oval lift point in the middle, that the front of the 2 centermembers attach to.

The rear crossmember, or subframe, i.e. the part that the control arms, steering rack and stabilizer bar clamps/bushings attach to, uses 4 bushings, 2 on either R/L end near its front-back center and on its top part, and 2 more further back and further away from either R/L end and near its bottom. The front 2 are the same bushings as the ones used by the front crossmember, and the rear two are slightly different.

You can see for yourself in either the FSM or parts catalog (which can be downloaded elsewhere on this site). The 4 common bushings are part MB518168 and measure 48x60mm, while the 2 other bushings are part MB518167 and measure 48x65. You can find this on page 896 of the parts catalog.

It appears that only the 4 common ones are included in the ES kit. Not sure where to get the correct other 2 bushings other than Mitsubishi or perhaps a google search. But as paulyman writes above they don't need to be replaced. Not sure why but I suppose that the other 4 bear most of the dynamic loads encountered while driving, perhaps because they're further up (just a guess there).

Btw this is counter to what others are saying, that only the 4 rear subframe bushings need to be replaced and not the 2 front crossmember bushings, and that these 4 bushings are the same. I'm just going by what the parts catalog says. Perhaps it's actually wrong, or the 2 different, slightly longer bushings are effectively interchangeable with the 4 common, slightly shorter ones. If this is confusing then take a look at the parts catalog and you'll see what I mean.

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I'm actually considering ordering the subframe kit from ES and replacing them. I'm going to have all the suspension out anyway, plus the transmission and all the parts you need to remove to drop it, so this would be the ideal time to do it. It's not that expensive and on my 28 year old Talon they probably need to be replaced anyway. I just hope that it's not too difficult and I won't encounter snags that make it hard to put it all back together again. I will look into getting those 2 other rear bushings though.

I probably also need to replace all the bushings on the rear, but I'll try to push that till the spring. It's starting to get cold here in the NE and by the time I'm done with everything on the front end it'll probably be early November and working on the car will be unpleasant.

Hope this helps and wasn't redundant. Still learning as I go.

Also, I found them for a decent price on Advance Auto. With their 25% off coupon and free shipping it's about as cheap as I've found online. Of course now that I've posted this enough people will order it that when I try to order it, it will be OOS.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Mine weren’t bad, just decided to replace them while I had everything apart. Hardest part was getting the sway bar back in...pita. Thread the bolt on one side but not all the way. Just enough so it holds it in place. Then I used a wood clamp to get other side on. It’s going to fight you. Other than that, I had one bushing seized on the stud so I drilled holes in it and torched the sob while prying between the frame rail and subframe.

When you’re ready to drop the subframe, mark the steering column and the splines on the rack so your steering wheel is straight when you put it back together. Also when you’re putting the subframe back in, just hang the sf by a few threads so you can align those marks.

The rear isn’t a subframe bushing. It’s the bushing in the bracket that holds the back of the lca. It looked perfectly fine so I didn’t even bother looking for it. Plus it’s easy enough to remove if it ever went bad.

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[XC92]

No, I mean the one just to the left and bottom of the yellow circled hole. That's the rear bushing that both the FSM and parts catalog refer to. There's a matching one on the passenger side. The 2 front bushings go where the large hole is on the right bottom part of the subframe above, and a matching one of the passenger side. That makes 4 total subframe bushings, a rear pair and a front pair, and each pair uses a slightly different kind of bushing. At least that's my understanding from the official manuals.

...Ok upon further review I may have misunderstood these docs. The bushing to the lower left of the yellow circled one may be where the rear of the left centermember attached. I haven't been able to find a clear enough schematic that explains how everything goes together. Maybe the Haynes or Chilton mini-manuals have better ones. But it's getting late so I'll wait till tomorrow. I'll also get under the car and see for myself how everything's attached. No better way to learn than by looking at the actual thing.

 

[AWD-Tony]

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Yes blue and red are different sizes. There are 4 total subframe bushings, blue and red on each side. The left member bolts to green, no bushing there

 

[XC92]

Ok, so the bushings that paulyman was referring to that he says don't really need to be replaced are not on the subframe crossmember in the photos above, but on the front crossmember, right?

And upon reviewing a photo of the ES front AWD subframe bushing set, it looks like there are 2 pairs of bushings, each slightly different in size, which if so make sense given all this.

I.e. one pair goes in the blue openings, the other in the reds.

Still not sure why the front 2 bushings wouldn't need to be replaced. Perhaps, given that they don't bear much of the dynamic load of the car in motion, they're not likely to wear out due to use. But wouldn't time and weather still do their thing and dry rot and harden them?

Also, when you take all this out, meaning the control arms, both crossmembers and both centermembers, aside from supporting the engine from below via the floor pan via a jack and piece of wood, does anything else need to be supported so stuff doesn't fall out, especially the engine and trans?

 

[AWD-Tony]

Correct. The front crossmember

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Uses the same bushing as one of the subframe bushings. One of mine didn’t look so good so I used the one out of the subframe that I removed. I don’t think it sees any real load since it just ties to the frame rails together. Maybe if it sees lots of autoX or road racing.

 

[XC92]

So I can safely remove it, the two centermembers, the subframe, gusset, etc., with the engine supported by only a jack under the oil pan, and of course jacks under the pinch weld lift points (or nearby points) and nothing bad will happen? The engine and trans are mounted to the car separate from the subframe?

Btw your front underbody looks SO much cleaner and nicer than mine. It literally hasn't gotten a proper cleaning, derusting and painting in the 28 years I've owned it. Underbody car washes don't count, and the last one I did was years ago. So taking care of this is one of my goals. It's better for the car, especially when doing maintenance and to avoid rust, but also just "feels" better to know that it's clean there.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Thanks! I removed all the rust and painted it. I think you can and don’t think you need to support the engine as long as the other 3 mounts (Front roll stop, d/s mount & trans mount) are still on. She ain’t going anywhere.

 

[pauleyman]

So I can safely remove it, the two centermembers, the subframe, gusset, etc., with the engine supported by only a jack under the oil pan, and of course jacks under the pinch weld lift points (or nearby points) and nothing bad will happen? The engine and trans are mounted to the car separate from the subframe?

Btw your front underbody looks SO much cleaner and nicer than mine. It literally hasn't gotten a proper cleaning, derusting and painting in the 28 years I've owned it. Underbody car washes don't count, and the last one I did was years ago. So taking care of this is one of my goals. It's better for the car, especially when doing maintenance and to avoid rust, but also just "feels" better to know that it's clean there.

Look how your engine mounts. One of the mounts is on the subframe. If you take out the trans you only have the front and drivers side mount left. It should be enough. My 2g is sitting there with only one mount at the moment. It wont fall out but will need support.

 

[XC92]

So, there are 4 mounts: subframe, trans, front & DS. I'm taking out the first two, leaving the second two along with the jack & wood block under the oil pan. It'll be well-supported on the front & left, but I don't have to worry about the rear & right? This is one of those things you want to quadruple check before doing it as the consequences could be severe if you get it wrong, if you've never done it before.

Although, if I really want to play it safe I can reinstall the subframe before dropping the trans, and that should be more than enough for my peace of mind. Shouldn't delay things too much since I can only do one task at a time anyway and I'm going to have to reinstall it eventually as it is. Unless, of course, there are issues with seized fasteners that require cutting. But let's stay optimistic until given a reason not to.

 

[XC92]

Btw as I've been taking apart and cleaning the underside of my Talon I've been impressed by how solid it's made and how good a job they did with rust prevention, e.g. paint, undercoat. DSMs are best known for their engines, turbos, AWD and how easy it is to mod them, but are they also considered to be well-made structurally and in terms of how long they last?

My mother's Camry is exactly as old yet it's falling apart. I don't feel entirely safe getting under it, but with my Talon I have no such concerns. For example, after I cleaned the wheel wells front and back they almost look brand new, no rust whatsoever. A little paint and they'll be as good as new.