14b questions

[OverBoostinGST]

I wanted to know if I could get 300-325 whp out of my 14b, if so could I just use my 190 fuel pump without any need of injectors ( like 550's ) , thanks jesse

 

[andymoraitis]

Jesse,

That's really stretching the 14B but it can likely be done. Small and Big 16G variants usually end up in that range and they flow more cfm than the 14B does so you'll have your work cut out for you.

It will definitely necessitate 550cc injectors and some form of fuel control for tuning. Aftermarket cams would also help as would porting and polishing the intake, head and exhaust manifold tract to promote higher flow. I'd say that this can be done, but you'll need to be on an excellent tune (lean to the point of 2-3 counts of nock) with solid timing, fairly high boost and race gas.

Once our Dyno list comes back up, take a look at 14B cars and see what they're getting and what it takes for them to do so.

Andy

 

[OverBoostinGST]

Thanks a lot man, ya I was thinking about going with somekind of 16g (small, big, etc.) but after reading project goodwill I wanted to stick with my 14b and try to make the most power out of it, whats the boost limit on my 14b (effiently) like 18 pounds right? So 20 pds would be pushing it?

 

[andymoraitis]

You can run to 22 or more, but at that point it becomes a matter of how much efficiency the turbo has left. Small turbos like yours and mine have a tendency to push a lot of hot air at higher boost levels since the compressor wheel is so small. What you could look into to aid in reducing charge air temps is methanol/water injection. You'll get more out of your intercooler and will also have the ability to run leaner on pump gas with more timing before encountering knock. I've had people tell me that Big 16G's are out of their efficiency range at 22, but the more I yanked on the boost the faster I went (my 1/4 mile time is at 24psi). I'm now at 26psi and feel that I've about reached the limit of what the compressor can handle as anything more may slow me down.

If your goals are more about 1/4 mile times than horsepower I would also focus on taking as much weight out of the car as you reasonably and safely can. Project Goodwill is amazing for what's in it and it proves that a light car on a great tune can run some pretty spectacular times.

Good luck and let me know if you have more questions,

Andy

 

[OverBoostinGST]

You can run to 22 or more, but at that point it becomes a matter of how much efficiency the turbo has left. Small turbos like yours and mine have a tendency to push a lot of hot air at higher boost levels since the compressor wheel is so small. What you could look into to aid in reducing charge air temps is methanol/water injection. You'll get more out of your intercooler and will also have the ability to run leaner on pump gas with more timing before encountering knock. I've had people tell me that Big 16G's are out of their efficiency range at 22, but the more I yanked on the boost the faster I went (my 1/4 mile time is at 24psi). I'm now at 26psi and feel that I've about reached the limit of what the compressor can handle as anything more may slow me down.

If your goals are more about 1/4 mile times than horsepower I would also focus on taking as much weight out of the car as you reasonably and safely can. Project Goodwill is amazing for what's in it and it proves that a light car on a great tune can run some pretty spectacular times.

Good luck and let me know if you have more questions,

Andy

I agree, do you think instead of an water/methanol injection, could I just use an intercooler sprayer? I was also thinking about putting a wet nitrous kit on my car, do you think I could make some good numbers with my 14b on spray?

 

[andymoraitis]

Jesse,

A sprayer on the outside of the IC will cool only the exterior of it. What you want is for the cooling effect to take place inside the piping as this will lower temps throughout the motor and decrease your chance of knock under higher boost and timing. Methanol is definitely the way to go especially with a small turbo that makes so much heat.

As far as nitrous goes, I'd do everything you could on motor and turbo power first. That's a whole different ball of wax and will require a richer tune and less timing. I prefer to make power on what's already there instead of relying on a bottle, but that's my personal preference. Nevertheless, I'd still leave the bottle for the very last thing and have it professionally tuned if you decide to go that route.

Andy

 

[OverBoostinGST]

I aslo wanted to know how that water/methanol injection works, i already have a fmic so does it plumb into your intake piping like nitrous? Thanks Andy you've been very helpful.

 

[andymoraitis]

Oh, you're welcome. We all try to help as much as we can.

To answer your question, methanol injection is usually hooked up as close as possible to the throttle body elbow so that the cooling effect hits the air stream for the greatest effect. Some tuners with sidemounts opt for a dual setup with one nozzle before the IC and one on the throttle body.

You can find more information here:

http://www.aquastealth.com or http://www.coolingmist.com

The basic premise is that at a certain boost level, a trunk mounted pump will supply methanol to the nozzles and inject. Variable nozzle sizes are available based on horsepower requirements for either single or dual nozzle arrangements. Below that level, the methanol will shut off so as to not run the car rich or suck water in under vacuum. The key to making this work is bringing the methanol on at the right time. I've read that the best time is at about 75% of full boost pressure (this makes sense, but I haven't tried it myself to verify that this is correct). At 26psi, I would have it activate at around 20psi. I also have the ability see knock so if I was knocking on my current tune at a lower boost pressure, I could have the methanol switch on a bit sooner and avoid my timing being pulled.

We have a lot of info on the site as well and you might want to do an advanced search (titles only) for methanol injection or water injection. These should get you plenty of info, but of course we can still help with anything not listed in our topic threads.

Hope that helps,

Andy

 

[Steve93Talon]

I made 289whp on the 14b and stock SMIC, with a Denso 150lph pump. The car ran 12.5 @ 109.79 in that state. This was at 23psi on VP103 unleaded. With no changes other than a big Dejon SMIC and water/meth injection, I went 12.12 @ 112.1. I'd guess I'm just over 300whp as it sits. I've got HKS 272s, which are probably hurting midrange and not doing anything for me on top considering I shift by 6500. With FP1s or 264s, or even stock cams, you might make more useable power. I'm also running 550s, only because I already had them. With race gas (and meth injection), stock injectors should do the job. Use a logger and wideband to be sure!

 

[andymoraitis]

And there you have it straight from the horse's mouth. Great times and tuning Steve!

Andy