Zeitronix wideband

[Snail Tuning]

ok guys. I bought this wideband to tune honda's but it should work great for my DSM.

hear is what i have so far.

Red wire.(switched power) to 110 Ignition switch.
Green. (RPM) 109 ignition puls detect. (is this right or should be be taping 21 CAS?)
Black (power ground) 101 Ground
Purple (narrow band output) 4 oxygen sensor. (should i be using the wideband output?)
Grey (TPS) 19 TPS

does anyone know what the power output from the knock sensor is? if it was between 0-5 volts, i could use this as the user input and be able to record knock. anyone done this?

also the Zeitronix has a boost sensor display. could i tap 105 the wastegate solenoid and get a boost reading, or could i tap the #3 turbo gauge?

if anyone has used this or could answer any questions please post up. If you have questions about where to buy or you want to flame because you don't think i need a wideband, then please don't post.

My stock o2 got shreaded, and i don;t have the money to buy a new one yet. so in the mean time i wanted to use this.

also i did a few runs with the LCD and it keeps the high numbers, and i hit 10.1 to 1 ratio, so im running rich, and durring my pulls i was hitting mid 11s. im ganna hook my laptop up tomarow and do some pulls in the day and datalog. also i don;t have anything pluged into the stock o2 harness. i have no check engine light. will having the heater circit unpluged cause a problem? and shoul i just plug in my mangled o2 sensor into the harness, and cut the signal wire, and keep it away from everything in the engine bay so it doesn;t burn anything.

 

[Snail Tuning]

Today i did some driving with the laptop hooked up.

The pinout i used for the rpm works great. and i still haven't gotten any codes with the stock o2 unpluged and nothing to complete the heater circit.

I do have another thought. I think i hit fuel cut which you will see in the picture ill be posting, but what is the voltage range of the MAS? If it is 0-5v i could hook that up as my user input and be able to tell how much air i was pulling in. Also what is the Desired a/f ration you guys tune for in a DSM, in my Honda's i would aim for 12to1 and up to 12.4to1 for a good street tune. For some reason the car doesn't feel fast to me and im not sure why. if you see anything wronge with my log let me know.

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Then this is the pinout i used.

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and i was wandering what the voltage output ranges are for these pinouts
3 Turbo gauge
16 Barometric pressure sensor (MAF)
10 Air flow Sensor (MAF)
105 Wastegate solenoid valve
9 Detonation sensor
8 Intake air temperature sensor
i would like to possibly use nuber 3 for the boost gauge on the zt-2 and any of the rest for the user input so i have something else i can monitor and log.

 

[poorboyj]

Yes, I used pin 109 for the tach. You cannot use and stock wires for boost input. I hate to have to expalin this but the stock ECU "calculates" boost by airflow and volumetric effeciency assumptions. There is no stock MAP sensor or anything and if there was, there is little change the ZT-2 calibration would be setup for that sensor. IE. You will have to buy the correct sensors from Zeitronic to use any of the other inputs.

Jay

 

[djpast]

Turbo DSMs you want to run 11:1 or so on pump gas... you are prob running to lean and knocking.

 

[Snail Tuning]

why such a rich a/f ratio? i mean the compression is less than a honda, and that should give more cussion for error.

i mean i tune turbo honda's to 12.0-12.4 and they run flawlessly, and there on weeker internals and alot higher compression.

id think in a DSM you would want 12.0-12.5 becuase of the lower compression, and stronger internals????

also thanks for the reply about the boost gauge. i was hoping it would be something simple, but seeing how its complex it won't work. but it was worth a try.

what do you guys hook up for the user input? meaning what else can i datalog? could i log knock or MAF voltage?

 

[djpast]

because our cars are turbo. you need a richer a/f ratio.

I tune my h22a Honda to 13:1 on pump gas. N/A just require less fuel to make power compared to a turbo car. Richen it up a lil bit and see if that helps.

Plus DSMs run better on the richer side usually.

 

[Snail Tuning]

sorry i ment to say turbo honda's.

My d16y8 which has a 9.4/1 compression ratio, and it has very week internals i tuned to 12.0 at 10 lbs, and was making over 200whp.

thats why i was wandering why we were tuning into the 11's and why i was running in the 10's. in part throttle/cruzing i was at 14.5-15 for good gasmilage. and then i would get down to 12 to 1 a/f when i was in boost. i just figured i could tune my DSM to 12.0-12.5 becuase of the lower compression, and stronger internals. and pull more hp from the engine. rather than having to add boost.

 

[TSIsean]

The user input to read knock sensor voltages is useless. I did it on mine it stayed pretty much at a constant voltage even when I got knock.

I'm pretty sure you'll want to tune it to 11.5:1 at WOT, no you can't use a wideand output/voltage on your stock ECU.

The thing that puzzles me is that your asking such basic questions and you claim to tune Honda's like a pro. I'm not trying to be mean or insulting but you diden't notice DSMs don't run off MAP sensors, or that stock ECUs cannot do anything with a wideband singal/voltage or what fuel cut is?

You seem to be pretty knowledgable about some stuff but totally lost on others which can be pretty dangerous when it comes to tuneing. I'm no pro by any means but these are basic questions any novice tuner needs to know.

I appologize if this sounds harsh I'm just looking out for you, One wrong move and your engine is toast.

 

[sixer]

that area that you suspect is fuel cut is not, if you look at your TPS you were off the throttle so the lean reading was because the idle switch was hit when lifting the throttle making the A/F lean, also if you are using a MAF that is before the turbo the lean spot could be from loosing the unmetered air through the BOV...

i think thats what could happen but dont quote me on that, i am a Carburated Chevy guy! I am just on here to learn about these DSM's for my buddy who has one.

But in a sense tuning is tuning, also i would say that 12-12.5 should be better for hp with the DSM as well. Having a rich A/F will only cover up small problems with CR, if you have really high CR and try to just make it work by fattening up the mixture you will just wash the cylinders out and in some cases you will still get knock because the temps and cylinder temps get too hot. The added fuel covers up the knock in high CR engines by slightly cooling the air in the cylinder.

Hope that helped some!

 

[djpast]

trust me on this... 12.5:1 is too lean for pump gas generally on a DSM, this is coming from personal experience and from a couple wisemen on this site.

Stock DSM a/f ratio is ~9.4:1, just an FYI

 

[Snail Tuning]

The user input to read knock sensor voltages is useless. I did it on mine it stayed pretty much at a constant voltage even when I got knock.

I'm pretty sure you'll want to tune it to 11.5:1 at WOT, no you can't use a wideand output/voltage on your stock ECU.

The thing that puzzles me is that your asking such basic questions and you claim to tune Honda's like a pro. I'm not trying to be mean or insulting but you diden't notice DSMs don't run off MAP sensors, or that stock ECUs cannot do anything with a wideband singal/voltage or what fuel cut is?

thanks for the info on the knock readouts. ive been looking for the voltage outputs from different sensors at the ECU and haven;t found them so i was trying to figure out what all i could log. The only time i asked if i should be using the wideband output, was in the installation, and that was because most people on this site use there stock o2 sensor to tune there a/f ratio. im not really familure with DSM's so i thought hey, its a turbo car, people are tuning using the stock o2 sensor maybe its a wideband. I didn't think people would be foolish enough to tune off of a narrow band o2 sensor, but they are. a few posts i read say that a cheap a/f gauge is useless(which they are), but yet they tune using there o2 sensors volatge when they datalog. that makes no sense to me because its a narrow band o2 sensor.

also if you see on the run that i dataloged. i didn't let off the gas till after the a/f jumped really lean, it was like i hit a wall so i quickly released my foot. gess i have quick reflexes. and sense ive never owned a DSM or tuned one yet, i didn;t know if that was fuel cut and i was hoping that the log would show what that bad stuttering was.

also what do map sensors have anything to do with this? i know DSM's use a mass air sensor, or mass air flow sensor, thats why they can tune for added air being used. unlike a map sensor car that you set the values and it uses them a MAS ECU can adjust.

i was just trying to find out what all i could datalog and use my zietronix to its fullest ability. Also sense im new to the DSM world it really suprized me that the a/f ratio was so rich. i mean at the same hp levels, higher compression, and weaker internals i can use half as much fuel in another brand of cars, that was really suprizing to me. i figured having stronger internals and lower compression would allow for more timing, and leaner a/f ratios. i didn't mean that i wanted to tune my car to 12.5 but try and keep it close to 12.0 at WOT but apparently i need it in the low 11s. ill be bumping the boost up to 14lbs this week, and do some more logs with the wideband, to see where my a/f ratio ends up at.

 

[TSIsean]

MAP sensors do have to do with this because you asked if you could get a boost reading on your gauge from tapping into the ECU wires. The only way you can do that is with a MAP sensor.

Anyway, as for tuneing the A/F ratio. I'm tuning my EMS to 11.5 to 1. Yeh it's on the richer side but I would never tune my turbo car to anything much over that. I'd rather be safe then sorry, and I think you'll find that this is a pretty common ratio for DSMs to tune for, I diden't just make the number up.

Good luck with the tuning, that Zeitronix datalogger is great, I tuned my car to a perfect 11.5 to 1 with an AFC and Chip useing that logger.