who's running hot pipe? (no intercooler)

[sleepyvr4]

I'm curious about this setup. I know some of the drift guys do it. I just picked up a 1g, and am planning on making it into a track beater. My plans are going to fall around the goodwill laser project:

http://www.94tsiawd.com/Goodwill.html

I got the idea tonight to run turbo to 2.5" w/ bov to gm maf to throttle body. What can I expect from this (besides instant response and hot air) I think if I threw water injection into this mix it might work out. What do you guys think? Who's running no I/C and to what effect? Any pics would be awesome. I have a couple, just need some input. Thanks, oh and pics of my taloon will be posted soon.

 

[zxdude]

sounds intreasting.... maybe .... make some sort of box that fits over the IC pipe.... and fill it with dry ice or something.... that would be COOL....

 

[CanadianTSi]

I don't think I've ever seen a DSM do this, probably not a good Idea if you want your motor to last.

 

[Black94TSI]

You'll be seeing intake temps of well over 300 degrees, and don't belive the hype over the great throttle response. I ran an air/water intercooler in my mustang, mounted behind the passengers seat, and the difference in lag between it and my previous air/air setup was so small you couldn't even tell a difference.

 

[gimmie11s]

I'm curious about this setup. I know some of the drift guys do it. I just picked up a 1g, and am planning on making it into a track beater. My plans are going to fall around the goodwill laser project:

http://www.94tsiawd.com/Goodwill.html

I got the idea tonight to run turbo to 2.5" w/ bov to gm maf to throttle body. What can I expect from this (besides instant response and hot air) I think if I threw water injection into this mix it might work out. What do you guys think? Who's running no I/C and to what effect? Any pics would be awesome. I have a couple, just need some input. Thanks, oh and pics of my taloon will be posted soon.

uh, why dont you go ahead and be the guinea pig. let us know how it works out.... :thumbdown

bad idea. a small 16 or 20g will produce MORE than enough power for almost any track car while providing excellent response. 16g's often produce 20 psi or more BEFORE 3500 rpm.

-d

 

[jott5555]

dont hate on new idea's, mabey if you went propane injection instead of water injection it may drop your temp.. the problem i see is tuneing the car. mabey a small water/air intercooler setup..

 

[n3gativerr0r]

I dont think its worth the slight increase in response. Water/Air intercoolers are actually very nice if set up well, but is it worth the cost and hassle on a DSM? I dont think so. I would just look into a upgraded sidemount to go along with your smaller turbo.

Personally if I wanted a low cost track beater Id stick with the 14b and get a monsterous intercooler. Try to hit high 11s low 12s with a gutted car and good tuning.

 

[Defiant]

Same test as always: Have you ever heard of this being done on a DSM?

Voy-luh.

 

[98spydert]

Exactly, people aren't afraid of it or bash it because it's a new idea (and no, it's not a new idea) they stay away from it because it doesn't freakin work. I guess if you ran like 5psi, you might be ok.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

A lot of junkyard kits run no intercooler, but they also only run 6-8psi. I've seen several of them on Honda applications. If you're talking about running boost above 10lbs without an IC, just run straight meth and you'll be fine.

 

[Spyke169]

WRX at the local auto-x runs no intercooler with water injection no problem.

 

[gixrman]

The first GN's ran no intercooler, there power output was only 250hp out of a v6. when they added the IC power wS OVER 300.

 

[pboglio]

Here are a couple of suggestions:

1) Pull the battery, relocate it to the trunk and run a large Spearco air/water setup (.2 psi pressure drop @ 400 cfm) in place of the battery. This gives you the shortest pipe length possible, the lowest pressure drop short of a straight pipe, and increased reliability over running just water injection alone. You also get better efficiency than a FMIC at low speeds. On the drag strip you can run an ice box and make sick power.

2) I've heard of cars running ALCOHOL as a fuel source that don't even need an intercooler but that is a pretty serious strip setup. I believe they need to purge the alcohol out of the entire system after the race to avoid corrosion.

3) The Daihatsu Mira TR-XX (1986-1990) ran a pneumatic bypass that diverted the charge air from the intercooler and sent it straight to the throttlebody when not in boost. Under boost the valve closed down and sent the charge air thru the intercooler. You get the response of a straight pipe and the power of a FMIC. No need for water injection.

 

[Stapl3]

Here are a couple of suggestions:

1) Pull the battery, relocate it to the trunk and run a large Spearco air/water setup (.2 psi pressure drop @ 400 cfm) in place of the battery. This gives you the shortest pipe length possible, the lowest pressure drop short of a straight pipe, and increased reliability over running just water injection alone. You also get better efficiency than a FMIC at low speeds. On the drag strip you can run an ice box and make sick power.

This is a budget homedepot track beater setup.

 

[BrokenTsi]

guys run 10's all day long and they have an intercooler. Why dont you do what has proven to work? This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. I mean, if 14's is good enough for how fast you wanna go, then go ahead and be a budget drag racer. Or keep the sidemount intercooler and use water injection.

 

[igopoopy]

i am ... i guess :laugh:

 

[Blizz92tsi]

I'm not going for a budget racer, but I plan on running an upgraded sidemount. When the time comes I'll also add water injection. I'm trying to keep mine sleeper. You could get a used Supra SMIC, used pipes off of trader, and make a home depot water injection kit cheaper than a front mount kit. If you're good with fabrication you might be able to make your own pipes. Just be sure to bead them so they don't blow off. I don't think running without an intercooler is going to gain you anything; just less boost. :thumbdown

 

[pboglio]

The only knock against running water injection is that the water displaces the oxygen in the charge, POSSIBLY causing a slight power loss. I've heard the Buick Grand National boys have to kick up the boost a bit to compensate for the loss, and these guys were already running Intercoolers. I'd imagine no Intercooler would require a LOT of water injection to get the same intake temps. Kinda like dumping extra fuel to kill knock, at some point you start losing power. Just a thought.

For the smart ass (NOT the original poster) that mentioned "budget" build up, look on page three of that budget build up web link thats used as a guide. What do you see? A huge freakin front mount intercooler. Nuff said.

 

[sleepyvr4]

sorry I just got back to the discussion. I've been reading about it and it really doesn't seem worthwhile w/o meth.

"An intercooler is not used, as the cooling effect of the methanol is strong enough to cause ice to form on the intake manifold"

http://highperformancepontiac.com/tech/0410pon_butler/

it's also been discussed here before:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151412&highlight=no+intercooler

I know the stock sidemount isn't a weak link, I was just considering doing something completely different. I witnessed a guy w/ a 2g awd, 14b and my identical setup run a 12.6@108 on stock sm and upgraded upper pipe. I'm just throwing ideas around in my tiny brain. I ran a 12.5@109 in my galant with full interior and 3 bolt rear, I've done a custom fmic setup, I have friends that have done supra sm's (great investment), but I just wanted to try something way off. I may just piss around w/ water or propane injection using the stock piping. Oh well, I have time to think about it anyways.

 

[GSX_RCR]

I'm just throwing ideas around in my tiny brain.

I just wanted to try something way off.

Blowing up a motor isn't new or way off.

How is it a budget track car when you have to replace the motor every pass?

 

[MSRmechanic]

i think this is an awesome idea. Tim Switzer uses a setup like this on his car. the man is a true genious, he turned the intake manifold into a air-water intercooler. im sure you could also set something up on the pipe from the turbo to the mani, but that may be difficult using a GM setup.

personally, i say go for it. it hasnt been done many times and its definetly pretty sweet.

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[DGajre777]

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That is Sweet! I didn't know that could be done!

 

[GPTourer]

i think this is an awesome idea. Tim Switzer uses a setup like this on his car. the man is a true genious, he turned the intake manifold into a air-water intercooler.

How is running an air-water intercooler the same as running no intercooler?

 

[MSRmechanic]

How is running an air-water intercooler the same as running no intercooler?

its not the same (obviously), just a similar idea. just giving the guy some ideas.

-scott

 

[sleepyvr4]

yeah, none of these are new ideas. that was just thrown out there. I'm not familiar w/ water injection (having never used it, but I've read plenty) so I thought it may be a possibility to cool the air w/ it. I have pics and info of about every setup that can be found in all the forums. I was asking those who have done it, not the nitpicky opinion of everyone on the site that has never even been to the track

about 3 negative comments came from someone who seemed to know what they are talking about. Who has blown an engine running no i/c? ok, not anyone here. cool. I know a couple guys have run this on the gvr4 forums, but have yet to see responses.

I tend to knock ideas myself when they seem dangerous or possibly costly, but what the hell man. I sure the 1st person that said "hey, let's put this gm maf on an import" was called a tool. oh well. I'm a tool. #27

http://www.dsmtimes.org/galant.htm

I have done something right at least

I'll keep my posts to the tuning section from now on.

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