What Would Be Best For Me Next...?

[BigLGST]

Current mods in my profile...I am debating between a couple of things. I dont know whether to get the followings...

HKS 272's Cams
Magnus Intake Manifold
1G Head Swap

Of course all three would be nice but I dont have a money tree in my backyard. Which one of these three would best benefit me with my current setup. Any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[ITSME4G63]

Upgrade the turbo, since your profile doesnt list that you have an upgraded one.

 

[Syndicate13]

Yeah it does, he has the AGP RS49, although he refers to it as the Real Shitty 49. Why is that? Are you having issues with the AGP turbo? Or is it just the hassle of installing it? I've heard of having to remove the fans and convinve the water pipe to allow the compressor housing to fit. Anyway, I would definitely go cams. There is nothing better to do on a 2G head. The manifold will help also but will do more after the cams.

 

[phatTSi]

It says hes got an AGP 49.

 

[ITSME4G63]

It says hes got an AGP 49.

My apologies. Cams.

 

[BigLGST]

There were plenty reasons I call it what I did. Mainly because when I orderd I asked for it internally gated, but the flapper arm got messed up, so AGP wanted me to send it back but I had already sold my previous turbo, so I coudlnt do this. I ended up having to get a custome o2 housing that cost me A LOT, plus the cost of 38 mm TIAL WG, In the end I paid like $600 for the o2 housing, dump tube, wastegate, and fabrication. I could have gone full garret for the price. Overall I guess the turbo isnt bad, just didnt want to have to spend all this much.

ANYWAYS...back to original thread. I see some ppl saying cams, and thats what I was thinking of going with, just wanted to peoples opinions. More are welcome. Thanks

 

[tsi_punk]

i agree with the cams. but im pretty sure the 272's are on backorder everywhere

 

[ITSME4G63]

i agree with the cams. but im pretty sure the 272's are on backorder everywhere

Try Slowboy racing, they like never have excuses, parts always come in on time.

 

[SpoOLxExO]

The problem with getting the cams, or the intake manifold, is that they are 2g specific. The cams need a reference mount for the 2g CAS, if its in a 2g head, and the intake manifold can be ordered for the 2g style ports, which is a waste if you ask me.

1g vs. 2g ports are almost 2/3's of their opening in difference.

So in MY opinion, get the 1g head mounted on there, then you can go with the cams w/o modifying it for the 2g head, and get an intake manifold with the larger 1g ports!

 

[focusedrage]

^^^agreed, get the head first, you will have to put in new valve springs for the cams anyway so why not do it just once. The head is the most sensible thing to do fitrst

 

[Syndicate13]

You have to drill and tap for the CAS on a 1G as well, the only years that don't require it are 95-96 since the CAS bolts to the intake cam gear. Plus the head swap is a big pain in the ass if you ask me. So for the money/hassle I'd rather go cams and see more of a gain than just slapping a head on.

 

[DSMTurboEclipse]

I'd do the headswap and then worry about the cams/intake manifold.

 

[44pirate]

Cams Easy to install
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/instructions/caminstructions.htm

More topend. Rev higher.

 

[SpoOLxExO]

You have to drill and tap for the CAS on a 1G as well, the only years that don't require it are 95-96 since the CAS bolts to the intake cam gear. Plus the head swap is a big pain in the ass if you ask me. So for the money/hassle I'd rather go cams and see more of a gain than just slapping a head on.

You don't have to drill anything for a 1g, the cams bolt-in. I don't know where you heard that but its incorrect. Try not to spread "heresay" information.

Furthermore, the idea of putting cams in a 2g head is rediculous, you can have all that nice valve lift, but the fact of the matter, is that the ports inside the head, are WAY smaller than an unported stock 1g head.

Extra lift would be even better when you have the port area of a 1g head, but a waste if your doing an untouched 2g (Not-ported)

This also applies to the intake manifold for a 2g, looks shiney and nice, but again the flow of it does not match a 1g head.

Get the Head swap done, end of story.

 

[44pirate]

You don't have to drill anything for a 1g, the cams bolt-in. I don't know where you heard that but its incorrect. Try not to spread "heresay" information.

Furthermore, the idea of putting cams in a 2g head is rediculous, you can have all that nice valve lift, but the fact of the matter, is that the ports inside the head, are WAY smaller than an unported stock 1g head.

Extra lift would be even better when you have the port area of a 1g head, but a waste if your doing an untouched 2g (Not-ported)

This also applies to the intake manifold for a 2g, looks shiney and nice, but again the flow of it does not match a 1g head.

Get the Head swap done, end of story.

Have you actually done it yourself. Put cams in a 2g and drove it yourself? I have. It gave me 4mph in the 1/4.
Too each his own.

 

[BigLGST]

Ok so I am getting a little mixed responses now which is great, appreciate your help. Id figure these mods would be next. I mean they all roughly cost the same price to do pending I do the labor myself.

Cams - $600ish
Intake Mani - $600
Head - $???

Its just I am not sure how much, and what all exactly would I need for a head swap. If I were to go with a head swap. Could someone tell me what exactly I would need, and what would be some cheaper route of doing it? What would be a more expensive route of doing it? THanks

 

[Syndicate13]

This is from RRE so props to them.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1g2gheadswaptechtip.htm

 

[SpoOLxExO]

Have you actually done it yourself. Put cams in a 2g and drove it yourself? I have. It gave me 4mph in the 1/4.
Too each his own.

Was that before or after you had your 2g ported to 1g "match 1g intake"?

Cause then it would be the same as you swapping a 1g head wouldnt it?

Besides that RRE article shows why for just bolting-on, the 1g head is a huge bang for the buck.

Look at the comparison of stock 1g head vs. stock 2g head and also the throttle bodys!

Imagine paying $600 for a 2g magnus SMIM with those 2g head ports...

when you have more volume inside of your head, cams and the SMIM will have more to air to move as well.

Good luck BigLGST!

 

[1fast97gsx]

get the cams ... the headswap is nice but it's not really something you NEED to do. RRE even states even cali spec cars have run well into the 11s on a stock 2g head. A smim is also nice but not as much bang for the buck as the 272s.

BTW .. the headswap cost me around $300 including the head.

 

[44pirate]

Was that before or after you had your 2g ported to 1g "match 1g intake"?

Cause then it would be the same as you swapping a 1g head wouldnt it?

Besides that RRE article shows why for just bolting-on, the 1g head is a huge bang for the buck.

Look at the comparison of stock 1g head vs. stock 2g head and also the throttle bodys!

Imagine paying $600 for a 2g magnus SMIM with those 2g head ports...

when you have more volume inside of your head, cams and the SMIM will have more to air to move as well.

Good luck BigLGST!

Yes it was with my stock head, stock intake.

 

[SpoOLxExO]

uhh why are you rolling your eyes?

Is it because your telling me that with a stroker, hks cams, ported head, a 50 trim and 1g intake manifold that you only ran 116 in the 1/4?

That tells me:

A. you can't drive or tune your car well enough to eclipse the 1/4 mile better than a EVOIII 16g equipped stock 1g engine....
http://newengdsm.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=842

OR

B. 2g heads SUCK, like I have been saying (And alot of DSM'ers should know).

Please don't get offended cause a 1g 4g63 is better than a 2g 4g63 in every way.

I'm all done arguing with 2g owners, have a nice day!

 

[44pirate]

Lets see some of your times.
I running a ful weight with 220lb driver.

 

[Tevenor]

Idiots shouldn't tell other idiots to stop being idiotic.

That tells me:

A. you can't drive or tune your car well enough to eclipse the 1/4 mile better than a EVOIII 16g equipped stock 1g engine....
http://newengdsm.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=842

WTF are you smoking? Leave Josh out of this. He is a freak of nature and is engine IS NOT STOCK. 116 mph is ####ing moving period. Josh was running 26-27 psi on 116 race gas. Was pirate? I don't know, ask him.

B. 2g heads SUCK, like I have been saying (And alot of DSM'ers should know).

Please don't get offended cause a 1g 4g63 is better than a 2g 4g63 in every way.

I'm all done arguing with 2g owners, have a nice day!

2G head do not suck. They are highly underrated. For the most part, the air flow needed to see a significant difference is well above what 90% of DSMTuners will ever see. Size isn't everything.

I know a 2G head can go 124 mph. Mine went 112 mph on PUMPGAS at 21 psi with a 20g sized turbo (L1R). Yes stock 2G head, stock 1G cams.

Take your own advice. Don't spread misinformation

^^^agreed, get the head first, you will have to put in new valve springs for the cams anyway so why not do it just once. The head is the most sensible thing to do fitrst

Well that is just silly. No you don't. Stock valvetrain works fine to 7500 at least. If you are looking to rev the piss out of an engine to the tune of 9000 rpm, definitely get the upgraded valvetrain components, but the cams have very little to do with it. It's an indirect relationship at best.


As far as the original topic, I think all 3 are good options, although I would do the cams before the SMIM. The headswap, as obvious by this thread, has its supporters and it's objectors. The real restriction is not the head, but the intake manifold. The problem is a 1G intake manifold doesn't really match up will with the 2G ports. That part someone got right. So it's usually better if you are going to do a manifold swap, to replace the head as well. However that is A LOT MORE WORK than doing cams or a SMIM. you are talking pretty major surgery.

Not once have I seen anyone ask you waht your goals are. Is there a HP limit you are looking for? A time at the track? Street driving? What do you want out of it?

 

[44pirate]

Idiots shouldn't tell other idiots to stop being idiotic.



You calling me an idiot?

 

[Tevenor]

Idiots shouldn't tell other idiots to stop being idiotic.



You calling me an idiot?

Nope. Just more of a general statement. Perhaps somewhat like a mantra. No names specifically.