Weird timing issue

[drzdude]

I'm new to dsm stuff so I'm still trying to learn what's "normal" for these engines. So after trying to get my idle a little more stable I started looking at other poeples idle logs and noticed that my timing is all over the place. Anyone got any ideas to whats going on with it? I am running a MSD dis-2 ignition and I'm not sure if that could be affecting it. Thanks for any help

 

[2GFWDbeast]

theres nothing wrong with your timing. The ecu usues timing to control idle as well as the isc. You do need to take some timing out i see you were getting 4 degrees of knock. Its a low count but should still be looked at and taking care of.

 

[BigBeans]

A few things...

1st, your knock sensor is turned off below 4K rpm. As soon as it turns on it's picking up 2.5 degrees of knock, so you don't know what knock you might be getting under 4K.

I'd suggest lowering it to 2500.

2nd, you have your coolant offset at 10* with a stock T stat, so the car thinks it's hotter than it is.

I'm pretty sure the ECU pulls 1 degree of timing at 206 degrees, which means with the offset your car is pulling a degree at 196 degrees. If you bring the offset back up, you need to remove 1* of timing from the entire curve to get back to where you are now.

I would suggest removing an additional 2 degrees from 4K upward.

How much boost are you running? Boost estimate/airflow are basically nothing in that log. I know you lifted early, but you had 6psi at 5K rpm. Are you really spooling that late? Depending on the boost, the car has a lot of timing in it. What are your AFRs?

 

[drzdude]

A few things...

1st, your knock sensor is turned off below 4K rpm. As soon as it turns on it's picking up 2.5 degrees of knock, so you don't know what knock you might be getting under 4K.

I'd suggest lowering it to 2500.

2nd, you have your coolant offset at 10* with a stock T stat, so the car thinks it's hotter than it is.

I'm pretty sure the ECU pulls 1 degree of timing at 206 degrees, which means with the offset your car is pulling a degree at 196 degrees. If you bring the offset back up, you need to remove 1* of timing from the entire curve to get back to where you are now.

I would suggest removing an additional 2 degrees from 4K upward.

How much boost are you running? Boost estimate/airflow are basically nothing in that log. I know you lifted early, but you had 6psi at 5K rpm. Are you really spooling that late? Depending on the boost, the car has a lot of timing in it. What are your AFRs?

Thanks for your help. I didnt realize that the coolant offset would pull timing, I thought it was just to calibrate the output. I used a thermocouple to measure the true output and it was about 10 degrees off. Good to know I'll put it to zero.

I'll lower the knock to 2500 and take 2 degrees off from 4k on.

Boost is around 28psi at 6k and at 5k its about 8psi. Its comes on late and ramps up fast. The turbo thats on it now is a td04/t4 .60 cold to 1.2 hot a/r.
My profile is filled out on my car's details.

Attached is a full throttle run using thr same settings. Its raining here now and is not suppose to let up until sunday so I wont be able to do any runs till then.

I'm still a little concerned about My idle timing jumping all around compared to most others I've seen that are rock steady.
Thanks again for your help.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

Thanks for your help. I didnt realize that the coolant offset would pull timing, I thought it was just to calibrate the output. I used a thermocouple to measure the true output and it was about 10 degrees off. Good to know I'll put it to zero.

I'll lower the knock to 2500 and take 2 degrees off from 4k on.

Boost is around 28psi at 6k and at 5k its about 8psi. Its comes on late and ramps up fast. The turbo thats on it now is a td04/t4 .60 cold to 1.2 hot a/r.
My profile is filled out on my car's details.

Attached is a full throttle run using thr same settings. Its raining here now and is not suppose to let up until sunday so I wont be able to do any runs till then.

I'm still a little concerned about My idle timing jumping all around compared to most others I've seen that are rock steady.
Thanks again for your help.

You still have some knock. Its better then last time. You need to take 1 maybe 2 degrees out in each spot where its knocking.

 

[drzdude]

You still have some knock. Its better then last time. You need to take 1 maybe 2 degrees out in each spot where its knocking.

Funny thing is that I didnt change anything. Currently it seems I get more knock under mid throttle settings than at wide open throttle.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

you might have phantom knock replace your knock sensor see if anything changes

 

[BigBeans]

you might have phantom knock replace your knock sensor see if anything changes

Or just pull a few degrees of timing, or add octane to see if it's phantom knock.

Wasting $100 to find out that your knock sensor was fine isn't the way to do it.

OP i dont have link on this computer, i'll look at the log later

 

[drzdude]

Or just pull a few degrees of timing, or add octane to see if it's phantom knock.

Wasting $100 to find out that your knock sensor was fine isn't the way to do it.

OP i dont have link on this computer, i'll look at the log later

Thanks buddy

I think my issue still stems around the very irratic timing, in the logs you can see it never stays still. I'm going to check all my my electrical connections involving timing and ignition.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

Thanks buddy

I think my issue still stems around the very irratic timing, in the logs you can see it never stays still. I'm going to check all my my electrical connections involving timing and ignition.

thats how mine is. Mine is all over the place. Like i said before the ecu uses timing to control idle also. Its never really going to stay at one number.

 

[drzdude]

thats how mine is. Mine is all over the place. Like i said before the ecu uses timing to control idle also. Its never really going to stay at one number.

I get what your saying but I keep finding peoples logs where there timing is much more "stable" like this one. I wonder if having a high lift long duration cam cause the timing to more active then?