Transmission woes, gurus needed!

[Arrow_Runner]

Here's the story.

Okay, I've got an automatic transaxle in my fwd Talon. It had been slipping frequently for a few months.

I was going up a hill and it slipped, when it came back it jerked real hard and I lost all gears.

No first, second, third, overdrive, or reverse.

Park works, but everything else has turned to neutral.

I have the transmission and the torque converter out.

Would it be possible that just the torque converter broke causing me to loose all gears? I can rock the torque converter back and forth and feel something heavy in it move, I don't know if that's normal or not.

If that's not enough information, would it be possible to take some of the transmission apart and take pictures to post here?

Any info would be great, I would be thrilled to be able to buy just a torque converter and put my car back together soon!

 

[Sivad87]

Hmm, actually it seems like it could be possible that the converter went out. the only way i could really thing to test it would be if while in park and you reved it if it would hit the stall speed (2-2.5k i belive) or if the engine revs all the way to redline limiter or another limiter (approx 3-5k rpm on most cars for park and neutral)

Did you check the oil level on the trans and did oil come out of the TC when you took it off?

It also seems kind of weird that all the gears would go out all at the same time. it just seems like it would be pretty hard to cause faliure to all the clutch packs at once, unless a sensor went out in the transmission causing it to leave oil pressure in all the packs causing it to stay in neutral, but that seems pretty far fetched.

Sorry i cant give and mor in depth information, maybe somebody else can. but it seems very possible that just the TC went out. If you can take apart the TC without braking it you should be able to inspect the fins to see if any visible damage is done to it.

Best of luck! hope it works out fine.

 

[Arrow_Runner]

Thanks for the reply.

The trans fluid was rather low. I filled it back up and it broke about a week later.

And yes there was fluid in the TC. And I don't think it would be easy to take apart, it looks welded together.

 

[Arrow_Runner]

Can anyone else chime in on this? I'll be posting pictures of inside the tranny this week if I can do it.

 

[xyexz]

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;In my '94 n/a auto Talon ES I had this same issue, my father being the mechanic he is, decided early on that it was the torque converter and we took it off and you must look at two things that are early signs of whether or not it's your torque converter.<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The shaft the goes into the converter, look at the splines, (the grooves on the shaft). Do they look eaten up or chipped at all?<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Also shine a flash light into the converter, you'll probably have to remove all the fluid in it, (but keep it in a can if you haven't already drained it), and look where the shaft goes into and see if the splines are chipped or worn down on it as well.<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;In my converter the splines, or grooves, were all worn down and with that came some internal converter issues, I'm assuming this was because of all the slipping the converter was taking in.<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Look at your fluid that comes out of the converter and see if there are shavings that come out.<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;You will not be able to get the converter apart very easily if at all, it takes some special equipment, not to mention if you try to put it back together it needs to be perfectly balanced rotational wise (if that's a word). If it's off balance and you put it back on the tranny it would kill your tranny.<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Also you could check the linkage to make sure it hasn't fell apart or something, I'm almost positive it isn't that but ya never know. I can't be sure but I seem to remember dad having me look at some fuses to make sure it wasn't an electrical issue.<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Taking apart the tranny is a huge undertaking and there are a lot of parts that if you don't put them back on in the right way will ruin your tranny.
Here is a picture of my tranny taken apart:
<img src="http://www.brianinside.com/images/talon/94 f4a22 tranny.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="f4a22 tranny"/><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;That doesn't even show some of the other things, sorry about the fuzzy-ness, but you see what I mean. Make sure you have a good manual if you're going to take it apart.<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Also, if you need to rebuild it <a href="http://www.importperformancetrans.com/" target="_BLANK">importperformancetrans.com</a> is a great site to get rebuild kits, they'll also rebuild your tranny but it's expensive.<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Overall though seeing as how you don't have over drive I would bet on the torque converter being "done", which isn't that bad, they aren't that expensive.<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;One more thing, I wouldn't go revving the engine either because it's just going to make things worse, (not to mention free revving an engine is one of the worst things you could do to it), at this point just take things apart to see what you can "see", the feeling part ended when you didn't have and shifting happening, imo. The only thing you could feel for would to listen for the gears engaging as you shift at IDLE.

 

[Arrow_Runner]

Thank you for the info and the link. I finally got the tranny to me house today and here's what I found out.

1. There was a very very small amount of metal on the magnents in the pan, and there was some really thick fluid surrounding them as well.

2. I'm definitely going to need some help taking this thing apart. WTF

Can you recommend a manual for this? I'm pretty sure my Hanes manual just says "Take the transmission to a shop", or something like that.


My friend should be done with my camera by tomorrow so I will be posting pictures soon.

I will also inspect the torque convertor and shaft tomorrow too.

 

[robs90tsi]

If you dont know much, dont rebuild it yourself, youll end up taking all the parts in a box to a tranny shop and theyll just look at you funny, start out the right way and bring it to a shop.

 

[Arrow_Runner]

I totally understand, I probably won't be rebuilding it, I would just like to be able to disassemble it enough to see the bands, if that is even feasible.

 

[xyexz]

The bands aren't going to be see very easily without taking a lot of stuff off, but it's not stuff that doesn't come off easy, however I would recommend just taking it to a shop if you don't know what to do.
I have my own personal mechanic, my dad, that helps with any questions I have so no taking parts to a shop for me.
The manual that I use is an actual shop manual for chrysler/hyundai transmissions and specifically covers a couple of the 1g tranny models like the f4a22, I believe that it covers the 2g early trannys as well.
Good luck!

 

[Arrow_Runner]

The manual that I use is an actual shop manual for chrysler/hyundai transmissions and specifically covers a couple of the 1g tranny models like the f4a22, I believe that it covers the 2g early trannys as well.
Good luck!

Do you happen to have the ISBN number of that book?

 

[xyexz]

Hey I can get the ISBN number for you this weekend if you still want it, I didn't know you had replied...sorry.

- Brian

 

[Arrow_Runner]

Yes please, it looks like I'll be buying a used transmission, however I would still like the information and I could practice on my broken transmission.