The problem with DSMers today...(a rant and a warning)

[1993eclipseGS]

Eclipse Performance! poor car

 

[BrokenTsi]

who cares, its not your car or money. Let him blow it up and then it will go in the junk yard.

in other words, worry about yourself and your own car.

 

[leet]

For less than the cost of crankwalk you can stop 1G abuse today.

I guess that guy didn't realize that he only needed to skirt the front and sides. :laugh:

 

[EclipseSH21]

pfft you think you're frustrated, at least you're boosting...i'm a kid who knows either what I'm doing or to research correctly what I don't know....and here's some kid with too much money, and not enough brains, god knows when it doesn't work mommy and daddy will bail him out and buy him a new car. Seeing this sort of thing is ten times more frustrating when you're driving an N/T. :thumbdown

/rant

 

[talon96tsi]

pfft you think you're frustrated, at least you're boosting...i'm a kid who knows either what I'm doing or to research correctly what I don't know....and here's some kid with too much money, and not enough brains, god knows when it doesn't work mommy and daddy will bail him out and buy him a <a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=new%20car" onmouseover="window.status='new car'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">new car</a>. Seeing this sort of thing is ten times more frustrating when you're driving an N/T. :thumbdown

/rant

i can relate, pretty unfare to the people who actually might have some brains

 

[DSM91]

who cares, its not your car or money. Let him blow it up and then it will go in the junk yard.

in other words, worry about yourself and your own car.

No, see that is the entire point. That kind of attitude is exactly what I am talking about. I am sick of seeing these cars going to the junkyard. DSMs belong on the road and track raising hell, not rusting in a pile of rubbish in the middle of some muddy fenced-in field. The more uninformed assholes there are out there, the more these cars are being destroyed. Pretty soon seeing a DSM on the road will be a rare occurance and that scares me. I grew up having these cars around and they not only taught me how to properly work on cars, but also a lot about life. I have life-long friends now because of DSMs and I can't imagine these cars that have meant so much to me be destroyed by some moron who has no respect for what these cars mean to so many people.

The same goes for the assholes out there that buy perfectly good DSMs, then chop them up and sell the parts on Ebay. These people are DESTROYING our hobby and a huge part of our life every single day. It is horrible to imagine and it makes me sick. Do a search on ebay for "Talon" and see how many destroyed cars there are. People saying stuff like "We buy running cars and chop them up so you know everything will work!" Or "we part out ALL our cars no matter the condition!" That shit kills me every time I read it. Is there nothing that can be done about this? Destroying people's pastime for a buck. #### that.

 

[mavisky]

This is a long rant, so bear with me.

I have been fortunate enough to see a red 1990 GS Turbo at a small garage next to my office building every day for the past couple months. I really wanted to buy it, but I somehow managed to resist. (which was good because it turned out not to be for sale anyway.

Recently there has been a teal 92-94 Eclipse GS parked next to it the past few days, both cars having their hoods open. It wasn't hard to figure out what was going on there.

When I left work tonight I saw a guy working on the cars, and the GS had just been started for what seemed to be the first time. I decided to head over and talk to the guy to see how the swap went. (after all, it isn't every day you see a turbo 4G63 in an Eclipse GS.)

After talking to him for a few seconds I realized something was not right. There was a turbo engine running in the GS, that was for sure. However, the mechanic's complete lack of knowledge of DSMs (which was immediately apparent) had me very concerned. His english was not very good, so I was doing my best to get some information from him. I was trying to figure out if the engine that was now running in the GS was the exact same engine from the pretty red '90 GS Turbo, or if it was merely the turbo parts from the '90 on the '92 engine. It turns out my fears were true.

The mechanic was doing this job for a customer. He kept saying "the kid", so I am assuming the customer is somewhat young since the mechanic was probably in his late 20's. The mechanic said on several occasions that the customer did a bunch of research on the internet and said it was safe to install only the mechanical turbo parts into a non-turbo Eclipse. I guess if the internet says it is okay then it must be true.

So, let's review the facts.

The 1992-94 Eclipse GS (at least it used to be a 2.0 NT 4g63 as opposed to the 4G37 1.8L we all know and love) has the following parts now installed from the 1990 GS Turbo:

14B turbo
exhaust manifold
1g MAS (no air filter, just open MAS with exposed honeycombs)
turbo intake
IC hoses
intercooler
BOV
intake manifold
downpipe
fuel pump
injectors, fuel rail, FPR


That is great and all, but the problems arise with the use of the factory non-turbo head and block, as well as the fact that the car still retains the stock Non-turbo ECU and wiring. This means there is no knock sensor on the block and no wiring for it in the ECU. So a car with a non-turbo computer and 9.0:1 compression pistons of the weaker non-turbo variety will now be pushing at least 10psi of compressed air. At least he has the internet on his side. I am glad he did his research.

On top of all of that, the donor car is a 1990. Even if he DID get the ECU and whatever else he may need from that car it still wouldn't work due to the changes from the 90 to 91+ electronics. This kid is F'd in all possible ways known to DSM tuning.

I am writing this message in the hopes that this person comes across this in the next few days, or at least someone he knows will clue him in. There is not much hope for this poor 1992 Eclipse GS. In all honesty, I really hope to find this guy before he takes his car for a spin. If anyone here knows of this person, please let him see this thread.

The car is at a shop in Silver Spring, MD.



The problem I have with the DSM world now are that people are generally uninformed. The internet for whatever reason gives people a huge bout of confidence. Whatever they read on the internet must be true, and it does not matter if it is David Buschur saying it or Joe Shmoe. What can we do as a community to gain interest in the truth about these cars and what it takes to properly maintain and modify them? Or do we have to seek out the morons and shun them until they move on to something else? I wish I could contact all of these people in some way and zap their brains into gear. I really want to help these people and the Diamond Star community as a whole. If there are any suggestions I would love to hear them.

Thanks for the time.

P.S. Before the non-turbo guys jump on me for hating NT people and cars, that is not the case. I am a moderator at 2gnt.com and my first DSM was a 2g GS that I turbocharged with an HRC kit. I am all for people modifying and working on NT cars and I wish those people the best of luck. I just hate seeing it done the wrong way and especially when an otherwise perfectly good GS Turbo has to be sent to the junkyard for that purpose.

it's stories like these that make me sometimes wish i'd never done the turbo conversion and just bought an awd. i've seen and heard of countless cars being scrapped after mechanically incompetent owners attempt the same things i have or a cheaper half-assed version (such as the guy you mentioned) attempt to turbo their nt's instead of simply buying a turbo car from the beginning.

 

[duke52]

Let me start off with asking not to be flamed by like 30ppl
But, I did a turbo swap into my 92 esi back in 2000, long before I was a member here and knew very little about DSM’s in general.

I bolted on a stock mani, turbo, down pipe, ic and piping, the whole stock turbo setup minus inj, ecu, and engine internals. and the car ran well, it knocked at about 6.2k (probably earlier then that but that is when it was audible), so I shifted before I got there.
It ran 8-9 psi, I had the actuator connected directly to a boost source. It was fun and quick and cost me a whopping $200 for the set up. the car was my winter beater and was expendable(I bought it for 400 with a bad head).

Some time later, about 14 months I blew the diff, and pulled the car apart looking to put some forged pistons in it, the motor was clean inside and out, good cross hatch at 113k no pitting from knock in the pistons (near the ring landings or valve reliefs were all perfect) the head was also incredably clean.

I agree with your contempt of ppl with limited knowledge and a thick wallet throwing money away, but I have to argue that some ppl with limited funds but an eagerness to learn can do a simple swap (not scrapping an entire turbo car) just mostly stock parts that the majority of turbo guys swap out for better performing after market ones, can have a fun car with little knowledge as long as they are willing to bust knuckles on it when it breaks.

Since my 92 esi, I have owned a 90 laser rs turbo, a 91 tsi awd, and a 99gst, I’ve loved all my stock turbo cars, (especially my 99 ) but still hold a place in my heart for that 92 (I still have it parked in a garage in vt)

I don't mean to ruffle any feathers here just adding a point of view.

 

[leet]

No, see that is the entire point. That kind of attitude is exactly what I am talking about. I am sick of seeing these cars going to the junkyard. DSMs belong on the road and track raising hell, not rusting in a pile of rubbish in the middle of some muddy fenced-in field. The more uninformed assholes there are out there, the more these cars are being destroyed. Pretty soon seeing a DSM on the road will be a rare occurance and that scares me. I grew up having these cars around and they not only taught me how to properly work on cars, but also a lot about life. I have life-long friends now because of DSMs and I can't imagine these cars that have meant so much to me be destroyed by some moron who has no respect for what these cars mean to so many people.

The same goes for the assholes out there that buy perfectly good DSMs, then chop them up and sell the parts on Ebay. These people are DESTROYING our hobby and a huge part of our life every single day. It is horrible to imagine and it makes me sick. Do a search on ebay for "Talon" and see how many destroyed cars there are. People saying stuff like "We buy running cars and chop them up so you know everything will work!" Or "we part out ALL our cars no matter the condition!" That shit kills me every time I read it. Is there nothing that can be done about this? Destroying people's pastime for a buck. #### that.

Amen.

It's too bad we're capitalist.

Then again, political theories in general fail when applied to humans.

 

[big green]

No, see that is the entire point. That kind of attitude is exactly what I am talking about. I am sick of seeing these cars going to the junkyard. DSMs belong on the road and track raising hell, not rusting in a pile of rubbish in the middle of some muddy fenced-in field. The more uninformed assholes there are out there, the more these cars are being destroyed. Pretty soon seeing a DSM on the road will be a rare occurance and that scares me.

Some of our cars are almost 15 years old now. Cars do not last forever. Our DSMs are a dying breed. Consider that our cars have been out of production for almost 5 years. I agree with you that there are allot of kids that buy these cars and beat the crap out of them, but for us real DSMers, this is a golden age for us. Look how cheap we can get a 1g awd for. Even the early 2g's are getting pretty cheap.

 

[DSM91]

You are correct. This is a golden age for true DSMers. I just want to it last longer than a couple years.

 

[talon96tsi]

You are correct. This is a golden age for true DSMers. I just want to it last longer than a couple years.

i sure as hell hope so....considering ALOT of dsmers i know are deciding to sell there cars

 

[Mark S.]

The biggest problem with dsm's aren't the cars themselves but the owners. The best single statement I've ever heard of was from Tym Switzer who said "ferrari technology exists out there for dsm's, unfortunately the majority of the dsm community is too cheap to take advantage of it."

It is sad though the amount of people that abuse these cars.

 

[leet]

The biggest problem with dsm's aren't the cars themselves but the owners. The best single statement I've ever heard of was from Tym Switzer who said "ferrari technology exists out there for dsm's, unfortunately the majority of the dsm community is too cheap to take advantage of it."

It is sad though the amount of people that abuse these cars.

That is true, however, you must take into consideration that people buy DSM's because they are affordable, fun cars. Most people go no further than installing a cat-back and some wheels.

If I had the money, I would have many more modifications to my car. Alas, I don't, and the car remains the same.

 

[JCruz]

This has happened since the start of cars, There will always be people who have more money than brains. Its a fact of life.

And its not just the DSM crowd, Any type of car that has any kind of following has them, From Kias to Ferraris. But they are more prominant in inexpensive 'tuner' cars, Like Hondas and DSMs.

All I can say is just ignore them, unless what they are doing is so terribly stupid that it can place others in danger.

 

[Defiant]

This has happened since the start of cars, There will always be people who have more money than brains. Its a fact of life.

Just like people reviving threads that're a year old.