Test Driving comparrisons

[_Waffles_]

I am still looking for a DSM. I have been pretty hard set on a 2gb GSX or a 2ga talon.

I have been thinking though and realized that I dont really care about the looks, but rather wanted the 2g due to a lot of people saying that they have better handling characteristics.

I am wondering if anyone knows how to compare the 1g and 2g as far as driving capability/handling?

I am able to find several 2g GSX's and GST's at some local dealerships to test drive them, but I have yet to see a 1g. I am guessing this is due to age, but maybe its because everyone loves their 1g too much to give it up


Any ideas on how to be able to get more sense between the two when it comes to handling/drivability? I have not been able to find a direct comparison (most 1g/2g comparisons are about the 6 bolt/7 bolt).

Thanks for your help,
Travis Walthall

 

[OakStreetTuner]

The 2g take the cake as far as handeling goes on stock suspensions. The 2g also has a smoother gear box, the 1g are natorious of being very "notchy" in the gear transitions.

 

[mondale]

The handling on my 1g is pretty terrible. You probably won't see any at dealerships, but try to talk to the salesperson at the used car dealers to see if they ever see any come through at the used car auctions they pick up inventory from. Good luck with your purchase!

 

[_Waffles_]

If the handling of the 1g is so poor, then why is it still so sought after? Just for 0-60?

Also, has anyone noticed any handling difference between the AWD and FWD? mostly 2g to 2g, but also good to know if a 1g AWD handles better than a 2g FWD, or something of the likes.

Thank you again for your help,
Travis Walthall

 

[isantop]

If the handling of the 1g is so poor, then why is it still so sought after? Just for 0-60?

Also, has anyone noticed any handling difference between the AWD and FWD? mostly 2g to 2g, but also good to know if a 1g AWD handles better than a 2g FWD, or something of the likes.

Thank you again for your help,
Travis Walthall

That seems to be it. They're easier/cheaper to make faster in the 1/4 than 2Gs. But 2Gs definitely handle better. Slightly more comfortable, too.

OP: Don't count 2Ga Eclipses out, either. They look pretty similar to the 2Ga Talon.

 

[_Waffles_]

That seems to be it. They're easier/cheaper to make faster in the 1/4 than 2Gs. But 2Gs definitely handle better. Slightly more comfortable, too.

OP: Don't count 2Ga Eclipses out, either. They look pretty similar to the 2Ga Talon.

Haha, I wont count them out. The reason for the 2ga talon liking is how the spoiler was done. Any 2g mitsu would have the loop taken off and thrown away as soon as I could .


As far as the 1g: I was afraid of that. I am looking for something I can take to the track every once in a while, but by track I dont mean 1/4 mile. I like doing stock autocross meets and I like to have power along with control.

Now I plan to do the suspension before major engine work. Will a 1g perform just as well as a 2g with an identical (within reason) upgraded suspension, or will the 2g always handle better despite the extra couple hundred pounds?

 

[phunny]

For autocross go buy an Evo or a BMW, these pigs are just too heavy to be competitive without a ton of money. I just bought cf doors, hatch and hood trying to drop weight and have a chance.

 

[_Waffles_]

For autocross go buy an Evo or a BMW, these pigs are just too heavy to be competitive without a ton of money. I just bought cf doors, hatch and hood trying to drop weight and have a chance.

This car is not for autocross. It is for me. I want a DSM because I have wanted a talon for 12 years now (since I was 14). I just like the ability to go to the track with a car I have. Like the subaru I have now.

Now if I was to build an autocross only car it would be a mid 70's Porsche 911 Carrera with the alunimum block. I can get more into this, but it would be pointless.

I want a DSM for it has been a car I. Have wanted for years. I just don't want a bullet/one trick pony. No point in a fast car that can't be controled.

 

[pauleyman]

I was never able to drive to the limits of my 1g when it had better tires and a koni/eibach/st setup. All the components were fresh including a full bushing setup. On a track I could have I'm sure but on the street it was very scary to approach the limits as they were so far out there. It was a good street setup. Race setup? No but for what most people consider "good handling" I'm sure it would be more than adequate. Stock for stock the 2g might be better but with any tire that isn't some h rated all season I think a 1g handles better than people give them credit. Don't think for a moment that a 20 yr old 1g suspension will do well. Above all else buy tires that serve their purpose. Yes they wear fast, it's the price you will pay if you want performance. Corvettes don't suffer from this because there are no all season H rated tires available for a corvette. Kind of paints a picture for DSMs and an apples to apples comparison if you want any car to handle. Start at the point where the car meets the road. I'll take my 1g over my 2g any day. I just like them better. The only reason I went 2g is there are too many parts I can't find for a 1g. Cosmetics and such.

The 2g also has a smoother gear box, the 1g are natorious of being very "notchy" in the gear transitions.

I don't agree as the internals are the same, the controls are the same. 1gs are just old. Many people commented on my 1g and how well it shifted.....well that would be true of many dsms if they have fresh transmissions and clutch systems as my cars have. Now a very old 1g even freshened up, yes they can be notchy but I don't know anybody that would rebuild a 90 transmission with 90 parts. I didn't. No point in doing so. It should boil down to what you want.

 

[_Waffles_]

Kind of currious then: why did you go with a 2gb as your current car?

Also, where could I get new internals for a transmission? I have found "rebuild kits", but they are usually no more than new syncros and new washers/bushings. Is this what you did or did you find new cut gears?

Lastly, has anyone found a difference in handling between a FWD/AWD?

Thanks again,
Travis Walthall

 

[pauleyman]

As I stated it was getting very difficult to cosmetically maintain a 1g. Certain trim pieces just aren't available anymore. 2g is getting that way also but not as bad.

I typically did not rplace gears as that was never my problem. I replaced bearings, synchros, hubs etc. AWD has always been my preference but not because of handling. I've owned fwd and AWD 1g. My only 2g is my current AWD car.

 

[_Waffles_]

Ok, so just generic rebuilts on the transmissions and the 1g is as good as the 2g.

Did you do any suspension upgrades to your 1g's to make them feel like/better than your current 2g?

 

[pauleyman]

I did a full transmission rebuild on several of my 1g cars. I did not rebuild my 2g as I bought it with 52k on it. My most moded suspension 1g had energy suspension bushings.koni/agx struts.eibach prokit springs. St rear sway bar and any suspension oem bits were new as needed. Wheels were mille miglia m11 16x8 with whatever tire fit my fancy. Im planning a similar setup on my 2g

 

[_Waffles_]

I did a full transmission rebuild on several of my 1g cars. I did not rebuild my 2g as I bought it with 52k on it. My most moded suspension 1g had energy suspension bushings.koni/agx struts.eibach prokit springs. St rear sway bar and any suspension oem bits were new as needed. Wheels were mille miglia m11 16x8 with whatever tire fit my fancy. Im planning a similar setup on my 2g

I am guessing that 1g suspension set up was better than the 2g is now correct?

Also, if you wouldn't mind. When you start doing the same kind of suspension work, would you let me know at what point does the 2g become the same/better than the 1g.

By the way, what kits/parts did you use to rebuild your 1g transmissions?

 

[pauleyman]

I am guessing that 1g suspension set up was better than the 2g is now correct?

Also, if you wouldn't mind. When you start doing the same kind of suspension work, would you let me know at what point does the 2g become the same/better than the 1g.

By the way, what kits/parts did you use to rebuild your 1g transmissions?

Yes the 1g suspension was better but there was also a few thousand dollars thrown at it. I likely won't ever be able to make an apples to apples comparison. I also don't drive as hard as I once did. If you want a comparison it will be awhile anyway. I'm not a 20 something with lots of time, I'm a 40 something family guy and the DSM thing is only still with me because it's ultra cheap and so am I. It's weird, I can afford just about anything I want within reason, I just no longer want it.

I used OEM parts for the rebuilds with superceeded parts as I saw fit. For instance I had a 90 transmission but I put in a 91 intermediate shaft, 93 up 2nd gear and hub and a galant vr4 input shaft and first gear. I retained the 90 center differential that way intead of having to also upgrade 3rd gear and use a 92 up intermediate and keep the 90 shift rails. It's all up to the builder.

 

[_Waffles_]

I used OEM parts for the rebuilds with superceeded parts as I saw fit. For instance I had a 90 transmission but I put in a 91 intermediate shaft, 93 up 2nd gear and hub and a galant vr4 input shaft and first gear. I retained the 90 center differential that way intead of having to also upgrade 3rd gear and use a 92 up intermediate and keep the 90 shift rails. It's all up to the builder.

That sounds like a good combination, but I have been unsuccessful on finding parts for transmissions beyond syncros and bearings. Did you get yours through a generic shop, or a specialized dealer?

Also, thank you for your input with this. It has been a great help.

 

[pauleyman]

Well they were OEM parts. Any dealer can supply them as they are OEM.

 

[_Waffles_]

Well they were OEM parts. Any dealer can supply them as they are OEM.

Ok, I was going through places like shucks and autozone. I will check with actual dealers.

Thank you again.


By the way, anyone else have input on this?

 

[WES_393]

I've owned a 90 TSi AWD but currently own a 95 TSi AWD and 98 Spyder GS. What I can tell you just from my experience:

The 2g's both handled better than the 1g. The 1g wasn't as responsive and felt heavier, especially compared to the FWD Spyder GS. All of them had stock suspension and over 100k, so I feel the comparison was pretty equal. But I recently overhauled the suspension on my 95 TSi with a pretty basic setup: Tokico springs/shocks, poly bushings, Enkei rims, and Pirelli tires. Even with a simple setup like that, the car handles exponentially better than before. It's more than enough handling ability to get yourself in trouble.

However, I don't want to give you the impression that the 1g isn't nice to drive. In fact I seriously favor the 1g when it comes to the driver "feel". The 1g interior was made for a driver. You sit lower, the shifter is more arm-level, and the dash kind of wraps around you. In my 2g's, I honestly feel like I'm in a "normal" car with a powerful engine. The 1g is like being in a fighter jet.

Either way you can't go wrong. The 1g and 2g both have their pros and cons. But there are tons of suspension upgrades for both cars, so I wouldn't base your entire search on that one characteristic. I wouldn't base it off body style either, focus purely on mechanical condition. Swapping bumpers is easy. Fixing a junker is hard.

 

[AK Maniak]

From my personal experience 1g's feel heavier and less responsive. Even my 98 RS handled better than a stock 1g. But like Wes said the 1g has a much better feel as IMO it is more of a drivers car. It makes you feel like you are in the cockpit of a war machine.

 

[_Waffles_]

I've owned a 90 TSi AWD but currently own a 95 TSi AWD and 98 Spyder GS. What I can tell you just from my experience:

The 2g's both handled better than the 1g. The 1g wasn't as responsive and felt heavier, especially compared to the FWD Spyder GS. All of them had stock suspension and over 100k, so I feel the comparison was pretty equal. But I recently overhauled the suspension on my 95 TSi with a pretty basic setup: Tokico springs/shocks, poly bushings, Enkei rims, and Pirelli tires. Even with a simple setup like that, the car handles exponentially better than before. It's more than enough handling ability to get yourself in trouble.

However, I don't want to give you the impression that the 1g isn't nice to drive. In fact I seriously favor the 1g when it comes to the driver "feel". The 1g interior was made for a driver. You sit lower, the shifter is more arm-level, and the dash kind of wraps around you. In my 2g's, I honestly feel like I'm in a "normal" car with a powerful engine. The 1g is like being in a fighter jet.

Either way you can't go wrong. The 1g and 2g both have their pros and cons. But there are tons of suspension upgrades for both cars, so I wouldn't base your entire search on that one characteristic. I wouldn't base it off body style either, focus purely on mechanical condition. Swapping bumpers is easy. Fixing a junker is hard.

It is relitively easy to get rid of the overall wedge shape of a 1g? I like the curves of the 2g, but i like the interior of the 1g. I wish I could combine them.

If I can get rid of the strait line effect of the 1g, I think I would get one of a couple 92 DSM's around here with the 6/4 combo.

 

[WES_393]

It is relitively easy to get rid of the overall wedge shape of a 1g? I like the curves of the 2g, but i like the interior of the 1g. I wish I could combine them.

If I can get rid of the strait line effect of the 1g, I think I would get one of a couple 92 DSM's around here with the 6/4 combo.

No, your pretty much stuck with the wedge shape. But trust me, they grow on you. The 1gb Talons are easily my favorite body style. I'd give up my 95 for a 6/4 Panda in a heart beat.

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[bigbird94]

I have not owned a 2g but have driven a few, while I didnt push the car hard I would say the handling/comfort of the 2g was on par with my 1g, which isnt saying much.

As others have said the 1g interior does give more of that sports car feel vs the bland 2g.

WES is right about the 1g styling, it does grow on you and IMO is the NICEST looking car of any kind when done right. Unfortunately the majority of bitches disagreee, if you want that poontang, go for a 2g.

 

[Heartless]

Every car suits someone differently and to their driving style. I haven't owned a 2g but I have droven a few and personally I still prefer my 1g or any 1g for that matter. Not sure how you guys are saying its heavy and un-responsive? My 92 has always been extremely responsive even when I bought it with shot suspension, now with gc and evo struts it might as well be on rails and nimble as can be. But each is to there own, maybe I've just learned to push my car harder since I didn't have the $$$ to put suspension on it for years.
Just my 2¢

 

[pauleyman]

I gave up on the 1gs as I can't maintain them. Even if I had a bucket of money I couldn't get weatherstrip, window trim etc. I stockpiled some of it but the logical solution for me was to get a 2g. If I ever found a pristine 1gb panda Talon....well I'd be hard pressed to not go for it. If you want to see what I have now I'm the November ride of the month on dsmpurity.net. And this is a bone stock car. Yes it's that nice.