stock turbo on stock N/T possible?

[realitytb]

My question is this: Can you go to the junkyard, find a gsx or gst, and put the turbo and all other related things into your stock 4G63? I realize that if it can be done, only about 8-9psi should be run. And if this is possible, roughly how much might it cost, and what parts would i need to get out of the gsx or gst? Thanks for all of your help!

 

[GSGoinFast]

My question is this: Can you go to the junkyard, find a gsx or gst, and put the turbo and all other related things into your stock 4G63? I realize that if it can be done, only about 8-9psi should be run. And if this is possible, roughly how much might it cost, and what parts would i need to get out of the gsx or gst? Thanks for all of your help!

i was gonna do the same thing, except put it on my 420a. but the problem i ran into is the wastegate is set at 13psi or so on the T-25, and i think the same on the 14b but im not sure. there is no way to lower it without doing some crazy fabricating or what not. but if you can go around this problem some how, go right ahead. and yes i believe that is all possible

 

[Ghost1984]

stock boost on a 14b is 10.5 i believe. as far as bolting turbo parts up to your non turbo 4g63 engine. It can be done and will cost between $600-1,200 in parts, depending on where you go, plus your gonna need some aftermarket parts like a boost gauge, S-AFC, etc...i would search because there is a lot of threads on this and shows the list of parts you will need to do this. And the 420a would be difficult unless you can get a custom manifold to fit the block. Goodluck.

 

[GSGoinFast]

stock boost on a 14b is 10.5 i believe. as far as bolting turbo parts up to your non turbo 4g63 engine. It can be done and will cost between $600-1,200 in parts, depending on where you go, plus your gonna need some aftermarket parts like a boost gauge, S-AFC, etc...i would search because there is a lot of threads on this and shows the list of parts you will need to do this. And the 420a would be difficult unless you can get a custom manifold to fit the block. Goodluck.

ya i found a guy on 2gnt that makes custom manifolds. but i couldnt seem to find a reasonable way to get around that high actuator thing. if you know away tell me, cause otherwise im ordering nitrous today

 

[mavisky]

2g nt's are totally different than 1g nt's i'd check out 2gnt.com or flip through the nt forum some more. i know there have been a few discussions on how to make your own 2g nt turbo kit, but you can't use hardly any of the parts from a 1g or 2g turbo to do it.

 

[realitytb]

i own a 4g63 n/t So, i found a thread on turboing a stock 4g63. but i have questions. First,
here is a copy of what i might need:

1. complete turbo long block (blcok and head including internals and bolted attachments such as oil pump and such). - already been covered

2. mass air sensor - the turbo mass air sensor has a 7th wire coming out of it as opposed to the nt's 6 wires.

3. fuel pressure solenoid - not really needed, but can be setup just the same as stock

4. turbo intake manifold and throttle body - the turbo intake manifold is already tapped with the vacuum line nipple for the bov, also it has the correct studs in it to use the turbo throttle body and elbow.

5. turbo exhaust manifold - pretty self explanatory hopefully, although make sure its at least for a 14b and not the automatic's 13g with the smaller opening.

6. turbo and related cooling and oil lines - now here is one that's an option. you can either go with a trusty 14b for awhile and stock lines or step up to the plate with a combination of any turbo/ oil feed line.

7. intercooler (side mount or front mount) - you will need!

8. intercooler piping-i reccomend starting with a sidemount and stock piping for most people to keep the initial cost down.

9. turbo fuel pump - this is an absolute must have, the nt fuel pump has no business handling boost.

10. BOV - stick with the stocker for now, its a great design and its cheap and adaptable.

11. turbo injectors - get the 450cc's from a 5 speed.

12. injector resistor pack - little gray case on the firewall, 5 wires coming out of it. you need this badly, we'll discuss hooking it up later on.

13. 1g fwd downpipe - you will have to ditch the stock pre-cat setup. if you can't make your own buschur sells a well priced 2.5" pressbent that hardly necks down at all for a good price.

14. wastegate solenoid and mbc - you will want the stock solenoid (the one you do the free mod to) as some people experience a rather annoying check engine light without it. get this even if you are getting an mbc just in case.

15. knock sensor - check the condition of the old one you got, if all the goo is running out of it, expect high counts of knock and prepare yourself to replace it.

16. o2 sensor - the wiring for the o2 sensor is longer in order to reach across the manifold and down to the o2 housing.

17. thermostat upper and lower housings - the thermostat housing has the extra lines built into it for the cooling of the turbo and oil filter.

18. coolant cross pipe - this also has a coolant line for the turbo built into it.

19. oil filter cooler - now this is going to be a needed item although make sure and match it up to numbers 17 & 18 so that they're all the same year.

Do i really need the block? can i just take the parts from 2-19? What kind of PSI is safe to run with stock internals? do i really need to make huge modifications to the ECU? Last, is this really worth it, and safe for my car? (if i dont run over the boost limit)

Thanks for the help!

 

[mavisky]

yea i wrote that article. and if you'd read the opening paragraph you'd find out that that's not the list for what you want to do. you want this list written by user xhypno.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5986

 

[realitytb]

sweet thanks! i have one more question however. Do i really need to get a new lower end? Is it even worth doing without getting a new lower end? (pistons etc..) Im running low on money, and even stock pistons from a gsx are spendy, especially with labor, and im not expierenced enough to do it myself.

 

[mavisky]

getting the turbo pistons will only help you if your goal is to really push the car farther. you could easily leave the nt pistons in there and run low boost, but you have to realize that you're still ultimately limited by the amount of power those pistons can make before they come apart. the main problem is that the high ring lands on the side of the nt pistons are prone to coming apart under knock conditions.

 

[realitytb]

ok, well i guess for now i will keep my n/t pistons, and wait until i can get lower compression pistons and eagle rods. If anybody has any stock turbo components they would like to get rid of, just pm me!

 

[onepimpclipse]

if you know away tell me

MBC

 

[mavisky]

actually you don't need to save for rods. your rods (if its a 6 bolt) will handle 450hp since the turbo and nt rods are 100% identical. the only difference is the pistons really. if i don't need mine here i will pm you with details.

 

[realitytb]

no rods eh? sweet. Labor on putting in new pistons is still expenisve But i think i am going to turbo my car with the stock turbo. all i need is the parts at the right prices!

 

[GSGoinFast]

MBC

no dice on that one. an MBC works by leaking out some boost that goes to the wastegate. lets say you have it set to leak out 2 psi. then it takes the turbo 2 more psi of boost to make up for that 2psi leak and open the wastegate. you can raise the boost and lower it, but you cant lower it past the stock wastegate setting, since the MBC cant create more boost to send to the actuator to open it earlier. get it?

 

[realitytb]

So, how would i go about going lower than the stock psi levels?

 

[mavisky]

if you're wanting to run lower than 10.5 that's simple. the 10.5 is based off of the computer using the bcs solenoid to control boost. sort of like an electronic boost controller would. all you have to do to run approximately 7 psi is to run a vacuum hose directly from the turbo outlet elbow to the wastegate actuator without running any hoses to the bcs solenoid. the spring in the wastegate actuator runs at abot 7 psi which is more than low enough for whatever it is that you have planned.

 

[realitytb]

Does anyone know of any step by step type things for converting n/a to a stock turbo?

 

[onepimpclipse]

no dice on that one. an MBC works by leaking out some boost that goes to the wastegate. lets say you have it set to leak out 2 psi. then it takes the turbo 2 more psi of boost to make up for that 2psi leak and open the wastegate. you can raise the boost and lower it, but you cant lower it past the stock wastegate setting, since the MBC cant create more boost to send to the actuator to open it earlier. get it?

You learn something new every day.

 

[realitytb]

well, do you guys think i should go with the stock turbo setup, or go with some nitrous for now? :laugh:

 

[GSGoinFast]

well, do you guys think i should go with the stock turbo setup, or go with some nitrous for now? :laugh:

ive been contemplating this for so long. i kept going back and forth. then i decided on nitrous. but then i changed my mind and pretty much had my mind set on that turbo from my friend. i read a book about them, and did a shit load of research. long story short, my Zex wet kit should be here friday. :laugh:

 

[mavisky]

Does anyone know of any step by step type things for converting n/a to a stock turbo?

yea flip through the tech articles. there's one in there from user xhypno on how to do it on a 1g n/t without swapping the whole block, harness, and ecu like in my procedure.

 

[Daedalus]

what psi is safe to run on the stock pistons and stock piston rings? 7-8? To stay reliable daily driver able would 7 psi be good?

 

[SlowSpyder]

you will need a turbo ecu or a j&s ultra safeguard computer if you want to use a knock sensor. The N/A ecu has no provisions for a knock sensor nor would it know when to retard timing.

 

[SlowSpyder]

you dont need the block to turbocharge your car, although it would be nice. Can I ask why you would need a turbo maf? If anything dont get a stock turbo maf, get a gm maf with the translator or get a 2g maf. If you dont get the turbo ecu then you dont need fuel pressure and wastegate solenoid, but you will need to find a way to integrate a knock sensor, like a j&s ultrasafeguard knock/timing retard computer. The use of the stock 450s will require the resistor pack or you can just use high impedance injectors. Water feed/return lines can just be taken from the water pipe, like the line from the TB to the water pipe ( Run a line from the TB to the turbo then another from the water pipe to the turbo).
If you plan on using a high flow exhaust plan on doing some port work to your turbo and o2 housing along with having a 34mm wastegate flapper door installed on your turbo. With a high flow exhaust setup can cause boost creep even if the pressure source is connected directly to the wastegate actuator.

realitytb-the only way to produce a lower psi setting than the stock wastegate spring pressure is to run an external wastegate (which is costly) or find a wastegate actuator that has a lower spring pressure and find a way to mount it onto the turbo.

 

[aspiratethis]

actually there is a cheep way to lower the boost setting on your stock waste gate if u wer to find a turbo rebuilder in your area u could ask them to change the spring to your desired setting i had r&s turbo do mine and put a 5lb spring in it and then used a avc-r to run my desired race and street boost with out worrying about the settings if the controller was turned off i converted my gs to turbe with all stock parts and have had exeptional results it easily outruns alot of other cars giver the fact that it has high 8.9-1 comp ratio i used a thicker head gasket to get lower compression and have tons of off idle power that instantly smokes the tires and a strong topend rush of boost that reallt fixes the n/a cars poor high end capabilities i can hold the car a 140 mph for miles and get no extreme head temp and to blown head gaskets i did the conversion 6 months ago and have only had to change the oil and raise the fuel pressure i hope this is helpful