2G Spyder GS Brake Suggestions

[WES_393]

Let me start by saying the stock brakes on this thing are ridiculous! For those who aren't familiar with them, the NA Spyder comes with drums in the rear and wimpy single pot front disks. The car weighs nearly as much as an AWD model, has a beefy 2.4l engine, yet has the braking system of a base model NA hard top.

I don't mind the drums, they're cheap and last long. My problem is the fronts disks. I have warped 2 sets of Brake Best (Oreilly's in-house brand) rotors in the last year. The set I have now warped the first time I went from 75 to 0. Because they warped so badly, they wore down the pads in 7k miles. After only a few months my $100 brake job is metal on metal.

So should I install some higher quality rotors and see how it goes? Or should I just bite the bullet and install dual pot calipers and rotors from an AWD model? I have some spare rotors from my TSi that are still in very good shape, so I would just need pads, calipers, and brackets. But since I would be buying them new, it would be 2x the cost of throwing on some new stock brakes. I'm also concerned about too much braking force in the front. My wife drives the car too and I don't want the rear end swinging out on her.

If I were to install higher quality stock rotors, what are some good brands out there? I'm not looking for Brembo's or anything fancy, just something less prone to warping. If that exists.

Any input is appreciated!

 

[psycho]

The outlander brake swap is the new GSX brake swap.

You get the 2 piston caliper, but the bracket is a hair taller so you can use the larger outlander rotor.

The caliper is the same as the AWD so same brake pads. The larger rotor of the outlander than the AWD will help reduce rotor warpage as there is a larger area to dissipate heat.

Wish there was this option when I did the 2piston upgrade.

 

[WES_393]

Yeah, Im aware of the Outlander upgrade. But I don't think I want to go that far with it. Going from a 9" rotor with single pots to 11" rotor with dual pots would be more than enough upgrade, possibly even too much. Like I said, I'm worried about throwing off the front/rear braking balance since the rear has drums.

I guess my basic question is: Am I warping rotors because they are cheap/crappy rotors, or are the single pots just too small?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

If you're constantly "warping" (let's not get into that debate, please) rotors, hands-down, it's your driving habits.
That being said, if your goals and driving habits are exceeding the car's practicality you might consider an upgrade such as the Outlander swap or the GSX swap.

Braking bias is an interesting thing, but I don't think you'll "break" it if you upgrade to awd brakes.

 

[bradselph]

You can convert the rear to disc brakes. Spyder Rear Drum to Disc Conversion

You would be better off upgrading the brake master with a awd model before anything else.

The piston diameter is way smaller for the spyder gs versus all the turbo models, so a 2 pot upgrade is almost pointless without that. gofer iirc proved this with the brembo swaps.

 

[WES_393]

If you're constantly "warping" (let's not get into that debate, please) rotors, hands-down, it's your driving habits.
That being said, if your goals and driving habits are exceeding the car's practicality you might consider an upgrade such as the Outlander swap or the GSX swap.

Braking bias is an interesting thing, but I don't think you'll "break" it if you upgrade to awd brakes.

Not sure if I agree with the driving habits part. I drive the Spyder how (I consider) any normal person would. A lot of rural highway driving too. I drive my TSi like it was built to be driven, with much more city driving, and have never had an issue with the rotors.

Also not sure what you mean by "warped" (I'm assuming there's been some heated debate in the past), but that's exactly what's happening. And it literally take 1 hard stop to do so. I can call it right before it happens, and sure enough as I start accelerating again you can hear/feel the "thump thump thump" of a warped rotor.

So I don't see my driving habits being as much of an issue as the undersized brakes on the car, but I'll take it into consideration. It really seems they just can't handle taking such a heavy car from highway speed to zero. Now whether this is entirely a design flaw, or more of an issue with cheap rotors is the question.

You can convert the rear to disc brakes. Spyder Rear Drum to Disc Conversion

You would be better off upgrading the brake master with a awd model before anything else.

The piston diameter is way smaller for the spyder gs versus all the turbo models, so a 2 pot upgrade is almost pointless without that. gofer proved this with the brembo swaps.

Thanks for that info Brad. I assumed the Spyder would share a master cylinder with the 4g63 models like it does with many other parts.

I think I'm just going to give some higher quality brakes a try. If they crap out on me again, I guess I'll just upgrade all 4 along with the master cylinder.

 

[psycho]

Why don't you just save the money on what ifs and just upgrade?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Not sure if I agree with the driving habits part. I drive the Spyder how (I consider) any normal person would. A lot of rural highway driving too. I drive my TSi like it was built to be driven, with much more city driving, and have never had an issue with the rotors.
Also not sure what you mean by "warped" (I'm assuming there's been some heated debate in the past), but that's exactly what's happening. And it literally take 1 hard stop to do so. I can call it right before it happens, and sure enough as I start accelerating again you can hear/feel the "thump thump thump" of a warped rotor.

So I don't see my driving habits being as much of an issue as the undersized brakes on the car, but I'll take it into consideration. It really seems they just can't handle taking such a heavy car from highway speed to zero. Now whether this is entirely a design flaw, or more of an issue with cheap rotors is the question.

The quotations were meant to gingerly dance around the issue of warped metal vs pad deposits when discussing warped rotors. This thread need not be concerned with the difference, or the true meaning of a "warped" rotor as it will cloud your issue with all the temper tantrums that could potentially arise.

I also wanted to be clear to you, I was in no way meaning to attack your person or your driving habits. However, there are problems with saying things like "design flaw", "undersized", "can't handle a heavy car going form hwy speeds to 0", etc. You even said yourself it's how you think they should be performing. So whether you're destroying the parts because they're cheap replacement parts, or because they aren't up to the task that you think they should be (regardless if the math says so or not), it's still down to how you use them. I'm sorry if I made it sound like you drive like a 16 year old or something, haha, that's not what I meant.

I think everyone is in agreement, if you're wrecking the parts you ought to consider higher quality parts, or an upgrade that better suits your driving habi.. er.. needs.

 

[WES_393]

Why don't you just save the money on what ifs and just upgrade?

Not to sound cheap, but I try to spend as little money on the car as possible. I'm only contemplating upgrading parts to save money in the future. I love the car and take very good care of it, but at the end of the day it's just a cheap daily commuter. No sense in going crazy with upgrades unless they're absolutely necessary.

I think everyone is in agreement, if you're wrecking the parts you ought to consider higher quality parts, or an upgrade that better suits your driving habi.. er.. needs.

No offense taken my friend. I just wanted to reassure you that I'm not the said 16 year old with heavy feet. And yes, all I can say is what I think is going on with the car. I'm obviously very far from a suspension/brake expert, otherwise I would have known the answer already. So I do appreciate the input, not at all trying to pass it off as offensive. I'm simply trying to be straight-forward.

As for the dilemma, I went down to Oreilly's and ordered some Bosch Quiet-Cast rotors. They're the top level rotors without ordering some "performance" item. Also picked up some higher quality Ceramic pads rather than the typical semi-metallic. Thanks to some connections I made when working there, I got everything for the same price as the last set of pads/rotors. After explaining my problem, they assured me that if I had any problem with the parts I could bring them back and put the cash towards a dual-pot setup. Then I'll just cough up the rest for a master cylinder and whatever else. So it's basically a risk-free trial.

I'll be sure to update either way!