Rough shifting after clutch install....

[TheStock]

A couple months ago I put a CF- DF clutch and alum flywheel in without any snags. Only problem was that getting into gear became really difficult. Difficult to the point where I have to almost always shift into 2nd gear just to be able to shift into 1st gear at a stop. I changed the tranny bearings out for the brass ones and changed the shift plate bearings out for the alum ones and it changed the shifting but not the difficulty of getting into the gears. This also seems a lot worse when the car is cold. I'd thought maybe I'd somehow twisted one of the linkages on the tranny around a 180 degrees or something. But when I pulled it off and tried turning it I noticed that this wasn't possible. Funny thing was that after twisting it one way, then the other, and putting it back on the shifting was back to being super smooth.. for a little while. Then back to the extremely hard to get into gear. Each time I pull it off and twist it a bit and then put it back on it does this, smooth for a bit then back to stiff. Any ideas?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

happened with a friend's MR2... turned out the master cylinder was bad.

oh, and if you end up getting one.. DONT pump or play around with it when there is no fluid in it. trust me

 

[TheStock]

I was wondering if it might be that or not, but my buddy kept telling me the clutch would drop to the floor if that was the case. Ah well, I'm sure it needs to be replaced even if it isn't the culprit. Thanks...

 

[Syndicate13]

Put the car up on a lift and have someone pull the rubber plug on the bottom of the case and check the clutch fork. This happened to my car when I installed my clutch as well. Try this test, put the car in gear with the clutch to the floor. Rev the car to 5-6k, if you can smell clutch and the car tries to move forward check this now. I grenaded a fresh rebuild by not knowing this. Scroll to the bottom. http://www.roadraceengineering.com/clutchandflywheeltech.htm

 

[TheStock]

Well, I did that right after installing the clutch but didn't rev it quite that high. The tires didn't rotate at all, but if I try it again and do as you say and they do spin some... Then what's the fix? What did you have to fix? I noticed when I first drove it out of the garage it was engaging right off the floor, maybe an inch or two of travel. I adjusted the rod going from the master cyl to the pedal so that I only had a little freeplay on top instead of almost all the travel being freeplay... Would this have an affect?

 

[Syndicate13]

The clutch should engage in the middle not right off the floor. That's what mine was doing as well. Check this now and don't abuse the car at all until it is taken care of. At high RPM with centrifugal force acting on the clutch disc you're in essence shifting without it. Not a good thing for your transmission, trust me I know. But TRE and Shepherd both do great work.

 

[TheStock]

No offense, but thank you Capt. Obvious.

 

[Syndicate13]

No offense, but thank you Capt. Obvious.

Was this directed at me? If it was you sir are an ass. You came here asking for help describing the exact problems I have had and led me to my built tranny. If you knew it all you would not be here asking questions so don't reply with smartass remarks when someone tries to help you, that's one of the main reasons I don't post here as often as I used to, every n00b thinks his shit don't stink because DSM's have gotten so cheap that anyone can afford them.

BTW, have your flywheel step height double checked. The first shop I had do mine "forgot" to machine the mounting pads as well as the face and the clutch wouldn't disengage at all.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

i got your back syndicate

 

[TheStock]

That's why I put the "no offense", I meant it to be joking. You know, as one person flips sh!% to another with a smile? Didn't mean to hurt any feelings there. And I in no way shape or form think I know it all or even a fraction of what some of these guys know on here. I can only spend hours reading what I can and soak up what I understand from such individuals.

I've read a little about checking the step but I didn't understand it very well, plus I'd also read that the CF -DF mated with a new fidanza just fine. Maybe when I get back up to the Portland area here in a week or so I can hook up with some other DSM'ers and pick their brains. I'd hate to have to pull it all apart again, but if that's what it takes... So be it. Maybe I'd throw a new fork in while I was at it.

And also I've been forgetting to say thank you, you don't have to spend the time to reply to my posts or anyone else's and I appreciate you taking the time out of your day to do so.

 

[Savage Talon]

I ran a cf/df clutch and had the same problem. I did a little reshearch and found it happens cause CF uses less clamping force and a sticky disc material. So cuz of the sticky disc it tends to drag a bit making shifting hard. It also lasted only a hand full of launches before slipping. CF=

 

[TheStock]

Interesting... so IYO you'd go with a 2100 or a 2600 vs the CF... is that what you're saying?

 

[Syndicate13]

That's why I put the "no offense", I meant it to be joking. You know, as one person flips sh!% to another with a smile? Didn't mean to hurt any feelings there. And I in no way shape or form think I know it all or even a fraction of what some of these guys know on here. I can only spend hours reading what I can and soak up what I understand from such individuals.

I've read a little about checking the step but I didn't understand it very well, plus I'd also read that the CF -DF mated with a new fidanza just fine. Maybe when I get back up to the Portland area here in a week or so I can hook up with some other DSM'ers and pick their brains. I'd hate to have to pull it all apart again, but if that's what it takes... So be it. Maybe I'd throw a new fork in while I was at it.

And also I've been forgetting to say thank you, you don't have to spend the time to reply to my posts or anyone else's and I appreciate you taking the time out of your day to do so.

Tis ok. I was in a bad mood. Say thank you by repping me if I helped. I've only ever run ACT clutches in my car and I have no complaints. I can't really comment on the CF-DF for that reason.

 

[TheStock]

Good to hear you've had luck with the ACT's... Seems like I've read so many posts about guys having problems with them. Which one do you use?

 

[Syndicate13]

Good to hear you've had luck with the ACT's... Seems like I've read so many posts about guys having problems with them. Which one do you use?

Seems like there was a month or so period where ACT had their discs made be some other company than the normal one and the springs were breaking and causing hell. I've run a 2100 for a year and a half of hard abuse and it's finally starting to show that it can't hold with repeated launching. I don't abuse my car but I don't baby it either, it is driven in the way that it was built for. I spun a rod bearing recently and I'm going with a built bottom end and installing a 2600 at the same time. I have driven cars from the 2100 to the 2900, all with street discs, and love them. Pedal pressure is a little severe with the 2900 and the 2600 takes some getting used to but there is no chatter and smooth engagement in normal driving. A friend of mine has only ever used 2600's in his GVR4 and he has a secret to breaking them in that I'm just not man enough to try. Right after installation he does 2 6k launches with cooldown in between and then lets the car sit overnight. He did get 52k miles out of his last clutch though so maybe he knows what he's doing.

 

[Savage Talon]

I went with a Competition Clutch Ironman 6 puck. I didn't want the heavy pedal of the ACT 2600. To be honest this clutch is great, it makes some crazy noises when you slip it but the pedal feel is close to stock. http://www.machv.com/mavpopucl.html

 

[TheStock]

You're using a puck? You've got bigger balls than me man. I'd rather tear up the clutch than all my other components...

Syndicate, thanks to ya.. that's some good info on the ACT's. The clutch I had in my car before was a pain to depress, the CF is so good to me especially if I ever hit traffic. I remember constantly cramping up in bumper to bumper, so I'd have to get used to that again if I switched.

 

[Syndicate13]

You're using a puck? You've got bigger balls than me man. I'd rather tear up the clutch than all my other components...

Syndicate, thanks to ya.. that's some good info on the ACT's. The clutch I had in my car before was a pain to depress, the CF is so good to me especially if I ever hit traffic. I remember constantly cramping up in bumper to bumper, so I'd have to get used to that again if I switched.

Don't hold the pedal in while you are sitting still. Not only is this bad for your crank, all that constant pressure with low idle oil pressure, but it's a pain in the arse. Depress the clutch when you are ready to move.

 

[TheStock]

Well, when I just sat it was in neutral and the I wasn't touching the clutch. It was the stop go stop go, constantly moving in first gear that made it difficult.

 

[Eagle_of_Fire]

i got the 2100 installed fine too. After a few days and a couple launches the next week. 3 at around 4k nothing to crazy but now 2nd goes in a little ruff sometimes. just have to remember to press down a little further for 2nd. i don't know if it's bad. but i feel this guys pain. In my 95 i always had to goto second then to first when stopping. till i blew the plate up and snaped the clutch fork. pedal went to the floor and that was it. didn't come back up. stuck! had it replaced and it was smooth for a couple days. then i started having to do it all over again. idk. i don't worry cause it doesn't bother me to form that habit.

 

[TheStock]

I've finally fixed my nasty shifting into first and second. Had my dad jiggle and shift the nob around and noticed that the bracket holding the shift cables on top the tranny (not where the cables actually attach, the bracket before that) was kinda wiggling a bit. There's some special washers on it that are convered in plastic, so I ordered some new ones and threw them in. Just took the car out on a test drive after removing the balance shafts and didn't once have a problem getting into 1st or 2nd. Still grinded a hair into reverse though... Doesn't do it if I move the car a little forward and then put it into reverse.
Anyways... For anyone else that has shifting problems, here's another thing you could check.