pump gas king?

[14.5 drift]

of these 2 maps, wich one would perform the best on pump gas. I will eventually be going with a 2.3 or a 2.4, I have been looking at these 2 turbo's for a while now. Just wondering wich one will deliver the most punishing top end on pump?. Wisemen, any ideas?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Catbox_95]

Now I feel REALLY stupid That looks like some NASA malarky.

 

[pneumo]

I'd go with the second turbo because of it's higher efficiency.

You know both of those choices use the same compressor wheel? The only difference is the compressor housing; the first map was generated using a 0.70 a/r housing, and the second map shows the wheel in a 0.60 a/r housing.

 

[14.5 drift]

I'd go with the second turbo because of it's higher efficiency.

You know both of those choices use the same compressor wheel? The only difference is the compressor housing; the first map was generated using a 0.70 a/r housing, and the second map shows the wheel in a 0.60 a/r housing.

I'm sorry if this is asking a stupid question, in fact I'm sorry if some people think this is a stupid thread, but I really don't understand charts at all.


Could you explain to me in what sense is a turbo more or less "efficient"?


And if this question is just too vauge, again I apologize

 

[zross1]

I can't see the first map very well, but the second one is easy to read. All you really need to know is when you look at the "islands" you'll see one that says 78%. If you go to the very right of that island and go straight down you'll see the turbo is flowing around 42 lb/min. This is means the compressor wheel is 78% effecient and pushing 42 lb/min. Then if you go to the next "island" you'll see it reads 72% and it's flowing 48 lb/min. And on and on we go. The numbers to the left that run vertically are what you use to figure the pressure ratio. For example Pr=14.7+Boost/14.7. So if you want to know how effecient the turbo is at say 20 psi you plug it in 14.7+20/14.7 which =2.3. So if you want to know how effecient your compressor wheel is at 20 psi you'll go vertically to 2.3, move to the right and see at 78% your flowing 38 lb/min, but at 72% your flowing 43 lb/min. Anyway hope this helps. Oh ya effeciency is good. Simply it's just telling you the how effecient the air is (cool, condensed) that the compressor wheel is capable of pushing. Obviously more cool/condensed=more oxygen=more power.

 

[gasguzzler]

How much power are you looking to make? The first one has the potential of making more power. The second one is more efficient in it's peak area. How much boost are you willing to run?

 

[14.5 drift]

How much power are you looking to make? The first one has the potential of making more power. The second one is more efficient in it's peak area. How much boost are you willing to run?

As much as the car is willing to run. But let's say 20 for all practical purposes.


and power, as much as the car will make at 20 psi. I'm not trying to put this car together to suite a number. I just want every thing to work the best it can

I try and investigate each component of the car individually without cutting corners.


From the spark plugs to the turbo, ive made no purchase without doing atleast 2 weeks of homework as well as countless hours of scavenging through the search button.

 

[14.5 drift]

If I had to give you an idea, I would like to be able to keep up game with the factory/lightly modded z06's from a roll..........destroy em from a stand still.

 

[Dallas J]

The first one will make more power at a lower boost. I would say that one might be more suited for maximum pump gas power. If you want to run something like methanol and run a higher boost then the 2nd one would fit better.

Looking at the maps the 2nd one seems to able to get closer to 50lb/min of airflow, but it want to be ran at a higher boost level.

-Dallas J

 

[gasguzzler]

The first one looks like it's quite a bit larger. Larger turbos generally make more power on pump gas than smaller turbos, but you'll sacrifice spool time to get there. The GT35R is a much closer comparison to the first turbo

 

[SwiftKidGSX]

I'm sorry if this is asking a stupid question, in fact I'm sorry if some people think this is a stupid thread, but I really don't understand charts at all.


Could you explain to me in what sense is a turbo more or less "efficient"?


And if this question is just too vauge, again I apologize

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128139

Search tool is your friend...use him.

Joey 99GSX

 

[autronicDSM]

If I had to give you an idea, I would like to be able to keep up game with the factory/lightly modded z06's from a roll..........destroy em from a stand still.

You need low end torque to mess with those. What do you consider lightly modded? 450hp?

 

[14.5 drift]

You need low end torque to mess with those. What do you consider lightly modded? 450hp?

I dunno, few bolt on's maybe.

exhaust
intake
chip


Not looking for any miracles, I know what the z06 is capable of. As long as I can hold my own on the highway I will be more than happy.

 

[14.5 drift]

120 give or take trappish area on pump

 

[14.5 drift]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128139

Search tool is your friend...use him.

Joey 99GSX

Ive read that article a dozen times, just can't wrap my head around it for some reason. My below average mathmatical abilities leave me with a head ache every time I try to read that thing.

 

[krisj144]

in figuring the flow in lbs/min is there a simple conversion from the karmon vortex readings from say a dsm datalogger?

drift, SCC did a really good writeup as well about how to read turbo compressor charts that may help you understand this too. You may find it on www.sportcompactcarweb.com

 

[krisj144]

okay, I looked but I couldn't find the article on their site, sorry.

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

any turbo can be a pump gas king....its not the turbo that makes the car. A guy with a small 16g and a great setup and good tune WILL make more power then some nut with a "50 trim" 880 injectors and a intercooler big enough to suck small childern through, tuning by the " tuning for dummies" book. But according to most around here the "50 trim" is the pump gas king, in the next few months it will be another turbo as the "50 trim" craze will fade as the 20g faze did a few years ago.
Andrew

 

[Dallas J]

The airflow in lb/min is a number given from the karmen count and intake temp. Their are some other things that play a role in it too, I just cant remember what. What Im trying to say though is that you cant just get it by what your karmen count is.

-Dallas J

 

[14.5 drift]

any turbo can be a pump gas king....its not the turbo that makes the car. A guy with a small 16g and a great setup and good tune WILL make more power then some nut with a "50 trim" 880 injectors and a intercooler big enough to suck small childern through, tuning by the " tuning for dummies" book. But according to most around here the "50 trim" is the pump gas king, in the next few months it will be another turbo as the "50 trim" craze will fade as the 20g faze did a few years ago.
Andrew

So what you are saying is all turbo's are created equal, but all tuners are not?

 

[14.5 drift]

DSM, I didn't mean that in a combatative manner, just trying to make a point. I realize tuning is an issue, and once I get all my componentry sorted out, I will get to that part of it. I'm just tryin to figure out a bit about how turbo's work. Ive heard people say "X turbo works better on pump gas and Y turbo works better on race gas". Just tryin to get some help. Thanks though.

 

[rsunahar]

The thing I don't really understand when shooting for pump gas is whether I should shoot for a turbo that delivers greater adiabatic efficiency at high pressures or one with greater flow at lower pressures, as they don't seem to be the same.


Some turbos seem to be very efficient at higher pressure ratios, but deliver about the same flow as a 16g and their equilavents at lower pressures--below 15psi.


For example, if I wanted to run the most power at 16-17 psi, am I right in thinking that the 20g will flow more and make more power at this psi versus a 50 trim?

But yet, with the greater efficiency of the 50 trim at higher boost, can I run more boost safely with the 50 trim.

I'm confused...

 

[Stapl3]

14.5_Drift. While I haven't been a member here for too long, I have been reading the boards for nearly two years, so I have seen most of your threads. I am starting to think that you post just for the sake of posting. You always have a product that your looking at, but yet you never buy it, you just get info on it from us, but yet the information that we feed you is all over this forum, as well as all of the other forums. From HIDs to strokers to turbos, you always do this and fully imply that you're going to purchase.

The information on "pump gas monster turbos" is out there and plentiful. Do some research.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

My turbo is the ultimate pump gas king!!! PT-67 > *

 

[14.5 drift]

14.5_Drift. While I haven't been a member here for too long, I have been reading the boards for nearly two years, so I have seen most of your threads. I am starting to think that you post just for the sake of posting. You always have a product that your looking at, but yet you never buy it, you just get info on it from us, but yet the information that we feed you is all over this forum, as well as all of the other forums. From HIDs to strokers to turbos, you always do this and fully imply that you're going to purchase.

The information on "pump gas monster turbos" is out there and plentiful. Do some research.

Well, I am joining the airforce, I am getting a nice signing bonus, as well as once I return from boot camp, I will have some decent cash saved up. I don't leave for boot for another few months, so ive got time to figure out what exactly it is that I want.


I don't mean to be repetative or a nusence. Seems like any thread I start my attitude gets the better of me, or some one elses (not really sure wich yet) and I never really get the information I was looking for, just vauge ideas.

This will most certainly be my last (maybe second to last) turbo thread, because I am fairly certain I am getting closer to discovering what exactly it is that I want. I also kind of like to know how things work, rather than just being told "it works", .

"it works, just get a fifty trim"

Very common response, but with lots of varying origins. Alot of the "veterans" swear by the 50 trim, say there is real life experience to back it up too, but when talking to all the shops, they claim these new garret wheels to be superior.

So you might see my delemma.

I try and read alot about different stroker set up's, what type's of turbo's they run, what type of street manners their cars have, vs what type of track times they put down etc.

Seems like every other day i learn some thing new and have new questions, I often times try to make the questions very generalized just to try and spark up convo, but it seems that is not interesting to others and I ussually get shot down. Not trying to be difficult, in all honesty, I just like to be sure all angles are covered in my head, and I enjoy picking some of you guys brains

Some of you have an amazing nac for this stuff, and personally have sick cars, but far too much ego and attitude to teach about them. (cough Mirage2LTurbo sniffle)

For fear of being too vauge or asking the stupid question I have yet to really askk any direct questions about answers I'm looking for

Often times people just toss around answers without truly considering the answers, this is an expensive game to play and I just won't accept that when some one says "god you can run 11 on a 16g moran" blah blah blah, whatever.......

To sum this shit up.......

God this has been a long post, I know............


I want to build me a high compression stroker. 9:1 2.3 or a 2.4 (I don''t know enough about them yet so I can't say for sure wich one)

Being such high compression I am not expecting more than 19-21psi on pump, even with a giant front mount. The reason for a stroker/high compression was for mid to high leval power with a decent response and DD street manners. I was looking for a turbo that will move the most air, between 19-21 psi, and that spools betwwen 3-3.5k at the very latest.

I apologize for beating around the bush, as well as appreciate any further helpful commmentary that appears in this thread.

Peace out,

chris.