Piston Installation

[XiKeiyaZI]

Hey guys. I've searched through about 13 pages searching for piston installation, but nothing answers my questions. Most people are just upgrading pistons and whatnot.

Anyway...I recently bought a GSX that had poor compression. Come to find out, when I tore the engine down (since I had some ARP L19's, and to replace the timing belt) that the piston rings were shot.

So here is my situation. The pistons are perfect. I polished them up and set them out in order to the cylinder they came out of. I have polished the crank carefully, swapped exhaust manifolds, and cleaned the turbo. The head is also in excellent condition (I'm pretty sure this engine has been rebuilt.)

Anyway, the one thing I have never done is install pistons. So I thought I'd ask the pros! I'll be re-installing the stock pistons, which have been checked and are perfect. The Cylinder bores were also perfect, save for cylinder 1 which had a TINY, TINY taper at the top. When I honed the cylinders, the taper vanished, an I only did 4-5 quick thrusts with each cylinder. Got a lovely cross-hatch too.

Anyway, what is the proceedure for reinstalling pistons? I've never done it, and local mechanics are quoting outrageous prices. I'd rather do it and do it right (or f' it up) on my own and learn from the experience.

So I have everything I need. New rings, Bearings for the rods to crank, gaskets, belts, all those goodies. The Cylinder walls have been layered with oil to keep them clean and to keep from oxidizing. So, when I install the rods to the crank, do I lube anything? Wha?

xD Either direct me to somewhere I can read for a bit and learn, or just give me a quick breakdown.

Thanks.

 

[DSM_PWR]

You can buy a ring compressor at any auto parts store... ive been using the Autozone OEM for years with zero problems

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

You can buy a ring compressor at any auto parts store... ive been using the Autozone OEM for years with zero problems

Awesome. That answered a few questions about the piston rings themselves.

How about the installation of the piston? Such as connecting the rod to the crank. That's my main concern. In my head, I see myself starting the engine.. and 2 minutes into it, a piston flies through my head.

I can follow torque specs, but should lube be applied to anything down there? (Sounds dirty)

Such as.. when I place the rob bearings in the rod, do I coat the surface of the bearings that mate with the crank with any type of lubrication? Or just connect it and torque it down dry? Or just coat it with oil?

Also, an off question, When placing the head back on, I want to make sure that all of the pistons are down about halfway so as there is no possible way for contact with any valves?

 

[GSXSixteenG]

To answer your question. Use assemble lube when installing the rods to the crank and crank in the block. I got carried away and used it anywhere I thought would be good, didn't hurt anything. Just make sure you change your oil once the engine gets to operating temperature on first start up.

Its been a couple years since I put my block together, so I can't exactly remember everything. It was my first time as well. As long you can thoroughly read and follow directions and double check yourself, you will do fine.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

To answer your question. Use assemble lube when installing the rods to the crank and crank in the block. I got carried away and used it anywhere I thought would be good, didn't hurt anything. Just make sure you change your oil once the engine gets to operating temperature on first start up.

Its been a couple years since I put my block together, so I can't exactly remember everything. It was my first time as well. As long you can thoroughly read and follow directions and double check yourself, you will do fine.

I appreciate the information. Really.

I do want to make one thing clear. I did not pull the block. So the crank is still in the block.

-prepares for verbal abuse-

 

[Rob10_99]

Just make sure everything is clean, and spray off all the polished surfaces before putting assembly lube on them, such as bearings etc.
The only time I've ever seen a piston go through a head is that youtube clip of a drag bike shooting Nawz at the line. The "piston" or chunk of head or whatever it was went through the gas tank and apparently the guys hand was soo bad it had to be amputated. (or so the comments said)

 

[GSXSixteenG]

Just make sure everything is clean, and spray off all the polished surfaces before putting assembly lube on them, such as bearings etc.
The only time I've ever seen a piston go through a head is that youtube clip of a drag bike shooting Nawz at the line. The "piston" or chunk of head or whatever it was went through the gas tank and apparently the guys hand was soo bad it had to be amputated. (or so the comments said)

Wow, youtube'ing this as we speak.

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[XiKeiyaZI]

XD!!!!!

Sound advice. I'll keep it in mind.

>> Have you not seen the Civic.. or.. CRX?... They got their torque specs wrong and the entire front end blew apart like 5 ft. off the line? It was racing a Ford Focus.. I believe.

 

[DSM_PWR]

Awesome. That answered a few questions about the piston rings themselves.

How about the installation of the piston? Such as connecting the rod to the crank. That's my main concern. In my head, I see myself starting the engine.. and 2 minutes into it, a piston flies through my head.

I can follow torque specs, but should lube be applied to anything down there? (Sounds dirty)

Such as.. when I place the rob bearings in the rod, do I coat the surface of the bearings that mate with the crank with any type of lubrication? Or just connect it and torque it down dry? Or just coat it with oil?

Also, an off question, When placing the head back on, I want to make sure that all of the pistons are down about halfway so as there is no possible way for contact with any valves?

The installation of OEM Pistons to OEM Rods requires a torch and press... Take it to a machine shop because unless you have the proper tools, you can damage parts

Check this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2YrL3k__dA

Use Plenty of lube on bearings, for rod bolts/head bolts and nuts/studs, use either Motor oil or Moly Lube

Make sure the surface of the rod and girdle/caps where the bearings sit is perfectly clean without any kind of dirt/lint etc... Install the bearing and then lube the surface of the bearing... IMO you can never have to much but some will disagree

Once you ready to put the head on the block, set the cam gear dowel pins pointing up, so that all the valves will be closed. I like to set the block at TDC on the timing marks

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

The installation of OEM Pistons to OEM Rods requires a torch and press... Take it to a machine shop because unless you have the proper tools, you can damage parts

Check this clip
YouTube - Connecting Rods Machine Shop Video-Engine Building DVD

Use Plenty of lube on bearings, for rod bolts/head bolts and nuts/studs, use either Motor oil or Moly Lube

Make sure the surface of the rod and girdle/caps where the bearings sit is perfectly clean without any kind of dirt/lint etc... Install the bearing and then lube the surface of the bearing... IMO you can never have to much but some will disagree

Once you ready to put the head on the block, set the cam gear dowel pins pointing up, so that all the valves will be closed. I like to set the block at TDC on the timing marks

Awesome. I like details.

Now... I do have one slightly off topic part...

When placed the head on.. I have ARPs that I'll be installing. I read that there is a flange or hood on the front Engine Mount I have to shave? ... However upon instpecting I can't find anything that would be in the way.

 

[DSM_PWR]

Na, someone told me about that, i think its on vfaq or something?

Total BS, not modification to anything needs to happen, just tighten them down, place the head and torque down the nuts to spec/sequence

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Na, someone told me about that, i think its on vfaq or something?

Total BS, not modification to anything needs to happen, just tighten them down, place the head and torque down the nuts to spec/sequence

Appreciated... needed someone reputable to confirm that for me.

 

[SrKegler]

Looks like everything has been covered. One thing I recommend though is to put rubber hoses over the rod bolts before you install the piston. No sense taking a chance on scratching the journal surface.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Looks like everything has been covered. One thing I recommend though is to put rubber hoses over the rod bolts before you install the piston. No sense taking a chance on scratching the journal surface.

Also noted! I read that and was going to make sure that I remembered.. and it slipped my mind. I appreciate you reminding me. ;P

 

[90moneypit]

Everything that's been said above is correct (except for the amputation, he was fine. That's urban legend that his hand blew off.). The only additional advice I can give is to check the crankshaft for play before installing everything. I don't know how easy/hard that will be with the engine still in the car but that's about it. Oh, and I used a parts store 'universal' ring compressor to tap mine in. Cheapest piece of spring steel I ever saw but it worked!

You're clear on the ring installation procedure or do you need a little more info on that as well?

 

[Rob10_99]

Ah gotcha, I don't bother to read the trollin' of youtube anymore unless its in question ;P

 

[Shadow21]

Dont forget that you cant let the rod bolt or anything come in contact with a rod journal when you push the pistons down. Take some fuel tubing and cut a little longer than the rod bolt itself so youre sure it wont scratch the journal. Thats what ive been told by builders and i practice that every time i do a build (ive build 2 4g63s and 1 4g64 as it stands).

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Everything that's been said above is correct (except for the amputation, he was fine. That's urban legend that his hand blew off.). The only additional advice I can give is to check the crankshaft for play before installing everything. I don't know how easy/hard that will be with the engine still in the car but that's about it. Oh, and I used a parts store 'universal' ring compressor to tap mine in. Cheapest piece of spring steel I ever saw but it worked!

You're clear on the ring installation procedure or do you need a little more info on that as well?

I'm sure I now understand the concept of it and that it must be done. I'm.. murky on it? Eh, to clarify, I wasn't aware, before it was noted above, that the gaps had to be set differently on each one. I had assumed they could be at any angle and whatnot. Since I have the diagram above, I'm sure that once I start installing them, I'll be able to figure it all out.

I won't dare skip the opportunity to be absolutely certain though, so if you'd like to go a bit more into detail of ring installation (Especially since the set that I have coming in, I had to wait 5 days for) I'd highly appreciate it. The last thing I want to do is F' one up or break it.

Dont forget that you cant let the rod bolt or anything come in contact with a rod journal when you push the pistons down. Take some fuel tubing and cut a little longer than the rod bolt itself so youre sure it wont scratch the journal. Thats what ive been told by builders and i practice that every time i do a build (ive build 2 4g63s and 1 4g64 as it stands).

Heya, thanks for the advice! It was already covered above however. ;P As it stands, as soon as I got home I got the tubing cut for it.

 

[90moneypit]

Well as far as end gap on the rings, some mfg are file fit while others are pre fit. If you have to file them (the box WILL say file to fit if you do), first thing you'll need is a ring filer and a good set of feeler gauges. You'll have to file them, insert (NOT INSTALL) them into the block and then check the gap with the feeler gauge. The easiest way to insert them to the proper depth is to use a piston and a broken ring (install about 1/2 a ring, break an old one of you need to), flip the piston upside down and then gently push the piston (with new ring just barely inside the bore) until it hits the broken ring. You're basically using the piston and broken ring as a level, depth gauge to make sure the ring is in the bore flat and straight. Some people on here will say that you can get away with a hand file for filing your rings but unless you have the steady hands of a jeweler... I wouldn't try it. You want the ends flat and a ring filer is the easier and faster way to get there.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Well as far as end gap on the rings, some mfg are file fit while others are pre fit. If you have to file them (the box WILL say file to fit if you do), first thing you'll need is a ring filer and a good set of feeler gauges. You'll have to file them, insert (NOT INSTALL) them into the block and then check the gap with the feeler gauge. The easiest way to insert them to the proper depth is to use a piston and a broken ring (install about 1/2 a ring, break an old one of you need to), flip the piston upside down and then gently push the piston (with new ring just barely inside the bore) until it hits the broken ring. You're basically using the piston and broken ring as a level, depth gauge to make sure the ring is in the bore flat and straight. Some people on here will say that you can get away with a hand file for filing your rings but unless you have the steady hands of a jeweler... I wouldn't try it. You want the ends flat and a ring filer is the easier and faster way to get there.

Oh dear god. xD Here's where we get super technical.

Well.. o.o Let me look up the brand that I got.
I ordered the Standard size from Partsdinosaur.com. I read some good things about em'.

http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/product3183.html

 

[90moneypit]

the brand would be NPR (psst! It's right on the front of the box in the link). More importantly, look for the instructions that came with them. That should tell you what end gap you should have and if you need to file them to fit. My particular rings were file to fit but not all of them are.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

the brand would be NPR (psst! It's right on the front of the box in the link). More importantly, look for the instructions that came with them. That should tell you what end gap you should have and if you need to file them to fit. My particular rings were file to fit but not all of them are.

Lmao. I saw the brand! I just wasn't aware if that particular brand held any prevelance over other brands... such as a 1G BOV over a 2G BOV.

So in my head it was like .. " Is NPR a cheap-o brand that I'll have to do a lot of technical work with? "

o.o Are you aware of NPR's filing needs?

 

[90moneypit]

Well, depending on which thread you read here on dsmtuners, NPR is either a cheap knockoff or the original manufacturer for Mitsubishi. There seems to be some debate over Nippon Racing vs NPR but I think I'll trust the wisemen when they say NPR is the real oem. I don't think they're file to fit but it never hurts to check the end gap to make sure. You'll just insert the ring, press it in with the inverted piston and then check the gap with a feeler gauge. I replaced my pistons so I just used one of the factory pistons, removed the top and oil rings, and had a perfect 'tool' to push the rings into the bore to the proper depth while keeping them flat and level in the cylinder. If you check the bottom rings first, you can do the same thing. Just make sure you keep track of what ring/piston go where and you should be okay. It seems complicated but I'm just trying to give you as much information as I can The good news is that you don't have to do anything with the oil rings (the really thin ones)! For the amount of ring gap you should have, check your chiltons/haynes since you're doing a basic rebuild and don't have to worry about different gaps for different applications like street vs race like I had to.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Well, depending on which thread you read here on dsmtuners, NPR is either a cheap knockoff or the original manufacturer for Mitsubishi. There seems to be some debate over Nippon Racing vs NPR but I think I'll trust the wisemen when they say NPR is the real oem. I don't think they're file to fit but it never hurts to check the end gap to make sure. You'll just insert the ring, press it in with the inverted piston and then check the gap with a feeler gauge. I replaced my pistons so I just used one of the factory pistons, removed the top and oil rings, and had a perfect 'tool' to push the rings into the bore to the proper depth while keeping them flat and level in the cylinder. If you check the bottom rings first, you can do the same thing. Just make sure you keep track of what ring/piston go where and you should be okay. It seems complicated but I'm just trying to give you as much information as I can The good news is that you don't have to do anything with the oil rings (the really thin ones)! For the amount of ring gap you should have, check your chiltons/haynes since you're doing a basic rebuild and don't have to worry about different gaps for different applications like street vs race like I had to.

Haha. Yeah, it does seem complicated, but I'm sure with the information that has been given to me here, I can figure it all out. ;P

Now for education reasons... what is the purpose of having a specific gap set for the rings?

 

[90moneypit]

You want a large enough gap so it doesn't fuse together under heat but small enough to not allow too much gas by. That's over simplifying but I think I've under simplified enough