One problem after another.... Belt Tension?

[Generation1JeY]

Alright this is really annoying, but i guess when u buy a dsm u sign a contract to always have a problem with ur car. Last night me and my friend finally got my car running with a new alternator cause my old one died. Anyways while we were doing that we swapped power steering belt cause my old ones was really shreaded.

We got the new belt on fine and everything was good for the first couple hours i was driving the car, then all of a sudden there is this extremely loud, terribly annoying sound coming from the belt area. I guess my power steering belt is slipping, i'm not sure exactly that a belt slipping will make the noise that its making, but my auto shop teacher seems to think that it is.

I tried tightening the belt but it doesnt help very much, is there only the two bolt to move the power steering pump?

Anyways when i start the car up it squeals all over the place, it keeps doing this until i get maybe into 4th gear or 5th gear, then it goes away until i stop again, and its even worse when i turn. When i turn the belt stops and then my steering feels really jerky like its not working properly.

Did maybe i buy the wrong belt? Its a power steering v-bet i got from kragen and i told them my car specs and everything so they gave me the right one, but i mean its on there what else can i do to fix it?

 

[4g63MMax]

It sounds like the belt is loose. Try using a pry bar to hold tension on the pump while tightening the bolts. V-belts dont like to be loose. Also try removing belt to se how easy (or difficult) it is to turn the pulley.

 

[Defiant]

Your harmonic balancer is dead. Replace.

 

[Generation1JeY]

can u help me out a little, what is the harmonic balancer? where is it? how do i get to it? where would i find a new one?

how do u know thats whats dead though?

 

[maximumbob]

You should probably have spent the minute or two it took to type that response to search for an answer, as it's the best way to learn about our cars. I got my new balancer from dsmotorsport.com. YOu can tell if its dead by pulling on the outer part part which is separated from the inner part by a rubber area that deteriorates over time. It is located on the driver side of the crank held on by four bolts.

bob

 

[1fast97gsx]

on a 2g there are 4 bolts that hold the power steering ... on my 2g n/t I believe there are 4 as well. I'd be willing to bet your 1g has 4 bolts. Check on the pulley side ... look through the holes in the pulley and see if you can find bolts anywhere.

 

[Generation1JeY]

ok i just searched and in one of the squealing belts threads this guy mentioned that his son had a squealing belt that eventually led to a seized up water pump. That right there makes me really curious cause last night when i came home and parked my car, there was white smoke pouring out of my passenger side front wheel well. I popped the hood and i could here coolant like sloshing around through the top radiator hose. It was kinda dark so i couldnt see exactly where the smoke was coming from, but could this be because of the belt squealing and water pump seizing up?

I had my eye on the temp gauge and it never got extremely high so i guess i caught it early enough to not severely damage anything.

I'm just really confused right now, harmonic balancer? power steering belt? water pump? alternator belt? I just don't know what the problem is, if i knew exactly what it was i would just go fix it, but i dont know exactly what to do.

Should i just take it to a mechanic or is this something simple enough to do myself? would just buying a new water pump and installing a new harmonic balancer be easy or would that even solve the problem?

also defiant i read in one thread about ur chalk technique to test the harmonic balancer, i'm just a little confused on where u put the chalk mark, do u just like draw a line on the belt and the rim and then run the car and then stop the car and if the two lines arent lined up its broken or is it different?

 

[Generation1JeY]

alright guys, i have no idea what i did, but now my belts are quieter the a puring kitten. I looked at the alternator belt tensioner bolt and its really loose so the alternator belt is a little loose. I dunno why its not making any noise though.

But now i have a difference problem, today when i was driving my car my engine temps were very high, i was afraid to run under boost or drive fast at all. I dunno but is something with the water pump messing up so that its not cooling properly? I checked my coolant level and its nearly full, so i still cant understand why last night it was pouring white smoke from my overflow tube, would flushing the radiator and putting all new fluid in it help at all?

Any more suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

[Defiant]

Sounds like the waterpump has packed up. Mechanic time.

 

[maximumbob]

if you can't find the harmonic dampener, it's probably safe to say that you wont do your own timing belt job. So take it to a mechanic and pay some money....might as well change the timing belt and tensioner/idler pulleys and maybe the auto tensioner because you have to take the timing belt off to change the water pump. Also my car ran hot but did not overheat when my water pump started going out.

 

[Generation1JeY]

well when i'm typical driving, just cruising, without even boosting at all, its before the dash before the red dot. I mean even if it doesnt get all the way passed the dash line is it bad for the car? at those temps are things just not working well?

Also i have the driver side rad fan off, i know when people get front mounts they take those off so i'm not sure that makes a difference, but if i put that fan back on and flushed the radiator would it help at all?

 

[1995gsxtreme]

Alright, first if the car is running any hotter than the middle of the guage, then don't drive it. It would be very easy to not see it go even hotter, and mess everything up. Second, if you have a front mount, then it is blocking the radiator. My car has overheated a couple of times also, I have a front mount as well. I just bought some slim fans which I will be installing tomarrow. I will let you know if this helps. Another thing, if you only have one fan on, then it is taking cooling away as well. So put it back on for now. If you have a bigger turbo, then you can modify the fan a bit, or modify your wastegate,(if internally gated) to work with the stock fans. But don't drive it much if it is getting the least bit hot.

 

[Generation1JeY]

ya i put the other fan back on and i've been driving it really slowly, not getting boost at all and it stays near the middle.

But whatever my car is so messed up, last night i ws having electrical problems AGAIN!, i had my heater on, my headlights on, my wipers on, and then my abs light came on and i started to lose spark like before i switched my alternators. I dont see how two alternators can just go bad like that so i have to have a problem with my electrical system.

I'm just gonna take it to a mechanic, have them put a new water pump on, new timing belt, new harmonica balancer, adjust my power steering and laternator belts, check my alternator and all the wires, maybe new thermostat or whatever else u would need to replace.

I dont know i'm just tired of dealing with this crap i've done everything i can and when i fix one problem another one just pops up its ridiculous, i finally get my belt to stop screaching and then my water pump starts failing, then my alternator starts going out again.

Anyways does anybody know how much that would cost at a typical mechanic? I'm hoping it wont be ridiculous, but something i'll be able to deal with just to have my car working again.

 

[DSMKevan]

I hope to god its not the water pump. I had the exact same problems that you had today:

I just finished replacing the alternator belt today. I also set the tension of the all the belts fairly tight, until I could get a tension check tool. I just took it for a little drive, got some gas, maybe got on it 3 or 4 times. After about 5 miles, I heard some belt squeal, checked it out and I couldnt find any problems with any of the belts. About a 1/2 mile later I hear something go "Popprrapapappa" then it stopped. Immediatly after that I noticed a smell of burning rubber, as well as increasing engine temperatures and a FULL loss of power steering.

I also noticed that the battery voltage (when running) dropped down to 12.0v (what I had just charged the battery to, prior to running the car at all). I pulled over, opened the hood and noticed the radiator olverflow bottle had loooots of "overflow" in it. Then I noticed that the alternator belt had shredded away, and the entire "pulley and belt system" had seized up. The shredded belt had wrapped its way around the power steering pulley, the cause for my loss of power steering, and pretty much seized it all up. Im guessing that was the cause to my overheating (and possible water pump failure) problems.

When I got home I opened the hood again and heard the overflow bottle chugging away. There was lots of white smoke in the overflow bottle when I opened it as well. Im guessing that the alternator bolt backed out, and was held in place about halfway out. The head of the bolt started shredding away at the alternator belt, but never fully ripped it in two.

*EDIT*
I just went out and held the car at 2500-3000 rpm for a little bit after completely removing the alternator belt. The temp gauge got right to the little dash mark before I shut it off. The same symptoms occurred: white smoke from overflow bottle, "chugging" from the radiator overflow hose.

I just found though, that the alternator belt also powers the water pump, so it could just be the alternator belt (since I took it off) or the tension of the alternator belt the whole time. You might want to look at the alternator belt, if its really loose or is shredded, then that could be your (our) problem.

Since the alternator belt powers the water pump, theres your overheating problem. And since it also powers the power steering pulley, if the alternator belt loosens: the power steering belt loosens, thus causing your squeaking. Thats all just a theory though.

JEY: Please go on AIM if you read this, Id like to troubleshoot our problem together.

 

[Generation1JeY]

ya buddy u have the exact same problems as me. All i know is that my power steering is all jacked up, if i'm sitting still and i turn the wheel my power steering locks up and the belt stops and a few dash lights turn on. My car is overheating and white smoke is coming out of my overflow bottle and chugging from the radiator hoses cause the fluid is boiling. The squealing stopped a few days ago, but right when the squealing stopped my car started to overheat so its basically one or the other i just cant seem to figure out why its doing either. And now my alternator seems to be going out even though i just put it on less than a week ago.

If i can figure out anyway to do this myself i would but i'm just tired of messing up my car with every move i make. I'll get some quotes from some mechanics, hopefull just the belts are messed up and the water pump isnt siezed up. I dont know though i'm tired of assuming things, i'll just take it to a mechanic.

 

[1995gsxtreme]

Alright guys, I had something similiar happen to me. Here is what I am pretty sure it is. Your harmonic balancer came apart. What happened to me is I heard the screatching belt, then some bad rattle, then trying to drive home I lost power steering, however my car did not overheat because I was about one block away from the Mitsubishi Dealership... Figures... So about 250 dollars later it was fixed, I figured might as well pay them since I was there..

Hope this helps you guys

 

[maximumbob]

The harmonic balancer is what drives all belt driven accessories. So if it's bad then it may not be spinning them at the correct speed. Take off the driver tire, lower wheel well shield. Then look directly at where the crank would be. The big pulley with two belts on it is the balancer. Look at dsmotorsport.com for a pic I think. If the outer ring moves at all in and out when you tug on it, then it is bad. So it it's bad the inner part is spinning and the outer part is no longer held on by the rubber between the two metal rings. It's not hard to change, just four bolts holding it on....along with a lot of rust in my case after 120k miles. This is all for a 2g, but it should be similar on the 1g btw. Hope this helps.

 

[Generation1JeY]

Alright i took a look at everything, as of right now my power steering belt is really loose, along with my alternator belt. I also looked at the tread on the alternator belt and its pretty chewed up, could this be the reason why my water pump isnt doing its job and i'm losing electricity to my engine? If the tread on it is pretty chewed up and its loose would it cause this problem i have?

I didnt get a chance to look at the harmonic balancer, but tommorrow when its light i'll jack it up and take the wheel off and get a good look and feel on the balancer to see if it wobbles or its shredding and what not.

I'm thinking, if i get a new alternator belt, tighten it to spec, and tighten the power steering belt would that fix my problem? Dont mean to sound stupid, my best bet is to just try it i know, but right now i'm feeling really eager cause i have a feeling that might fix a lot of stuff, i just cant work on my car cause its too dark outside .

Question: is a perfect working alternator belt supposed to have VISIBLE 3 notches in it to fit perfectly on the pulleys? cause when i looked at mine its like chewed up in some places and doesnt have visible notches in it in others and stuff. But i mean last night when i started to lose all power to my car, could it just be that the alt belt is too loose and its slipping cause its chewed up so its not providing enough power or turning the water pump enough to cool the engine?

anymore suggestions greatly appreciated, just want to get my baby running again.

 

[maximumbob]

There are 3 grooves( unsure about the number three haven't looked in a while but grooves none the less) to fit the grooves on the pulleys. Flat spots definitely won't help traction of the belts. It mostly sounds like you just need new belts to get everything going right again, but I would still check on the harmonic balancer as they do tend to go bad over time. New belts won't be much money either.

ps I have had great experience with gator back belts from autozone. They looked great after almost 60k miles when I changed them and the timing belt.

 

[DSMvroom]

*subscribed*

cant help but to keep reading good threads chock full of information.

Also I think my car might be headed down the same road

 

[DSMKevan]

Note* Im not the thread starter...dont get me confused with him, Im just having VERY similar problems, read above ^

*Update* I just finished putting on a new alt belt and proceded to idle the car at 2000rpm for 2-3 minutes as I did before. I noticed similar results:

*Heated up very quickly to halfway point on the guage, then I shut it off
*Steam emitting from the radiator overflow bottle
*Alternator worked fine, outputted 14.x volts
*No erratic idle or stalling
*Passenger side fan never turns on

And some different results:

*Steam emitting from radiator cap
*Steam emitting from lower radiator hose
*Small bubbles (very small) coming to surface of fluid (I looked under the radiator cap after running)

I did not notice anything else out of the ordinary or unique problems. Im sure running the car on jack stands (in neutral) at a steady 2000rpm will yield very different results than if actually driving the car. Any theories regarding the problem? Please read above at Jey and my posts to fully understand our problem.

Thanks for all the support.

 

[DSMKevan]

Ive come to the conclusion it could be a number of things. Ill change the coolant, replace the thermostat and the radiator cap, as well as check hoses and all belts once again. This should eliminate any minor anomolies. If none of that helps, it has to be something very major...and will most likely result in the hibernation of my talon for the winter. I dont really have the funds to replace a water pump, or a new head for that matter. I guess its good that the smoke (steam, rather) is only emitting from the coolant system related components. Thats much better than smoking like James Bond out the exhaust.

Jey: Im not sure if youre having the same types of problems, but it might be a good idea to check the same places where mine was emitting steam, to see if were having the same type of problem.

ANY more insight or help is appreciated

I think it might be a better idea to move this to the Problem Diagnosis forum?

 

[half-cocked]

Passanger side fan is the rad. fan controlled by the Rad.fan switch which is located on the lower passenger side of the radiator. I had the exact same problem. Also check your fan. They are 2 piece units, 1 piece is the shroud and motor which is $130ish from mitsu, and the blade is $30 - 40 from mitsu and they are dealer only items from what I can find.

 

[Generation1JeY]

just got a new alternator belt, and just like i suspected last night after looking at my current altnerator belt, i think that is my problem. My current alternator belt looks like its in really good condition, but when u feel the tread side and turn it over its really chewed up, i know theres supposed to be 3 in marks on it to fit the 3 grooves on the alt pulley and all that, well it hink thats my problem. When my alternator belt loosened itself, thats when my car started to overheat, and then my loss of power, basically just because the belt is spinning but the pulleys arent cause its loose and the tread is shot on the belt. Tommorrow i will put the new alternator belt on, tension it correctly, tension the power steering belt correctly and that should fix all my problems. Suddenly it all seems so simple, BUT i will also check out my harmonic tensioner tommorrow for play, if thats whats messed up then that will explain some stuff, i dont know though i have a feeling that with this new alternator belt and with proper tensioning ALL my problems will be fixed.

Thanx to everyone that has helped me and hope that this fixes my problem so i can go stomp some honduhs

 

[mkalters]

Hello the same thing happened to me I took it to 3 mechanics and changed the alternator belt 5 Times. Finally I found out the cam seal is leaking oil out onto the belt. Look on the underside of your hood for oil above the power steering belt and the alternator belt. The place mine is leaking is back in behind the power steering pump bracket so it is leaking oil onto the belt so they are slipping then shreding (At least that is what is happening on mine. )