nitrous w/t25

[2DaTrakNow]

i was wondering if i could put nitrous on my 98 gst with all stock internals and safely run about a 60-80 shot of nitrous. Honestly my normal plans would be to wait and build my engine before spraying, but my dad got me the whole nitrous kit from NOS for Christmas. I would kind of like to put it on so he doesnt think that it was just kind of a waste, plus it is an easy way to go fast. My fuel system is completely stock, BUT i ordered a 255 fuel pump, and im going to order bigger injectors and an FPR. Right now the kit he got me is just a dry kit, but since my car obviously has a turbo i will convert it to a wet kit. If i run it somewhat rich, will my engine hold up? The most i will be using it is just on weekends(when im at the track) for 3-5 passes a day. Any help on this would be great! But as far as long term engine wear, this next winter i will build my engine for NO2 and high boost, so if it does get worn down alittle bit by me sprayin, it will all get fixed in the winter.

 

[tom04841]

I ran nitrous on my saturn that i turbo'd. I used a 50 shot just for the extra power until my turbo spooled....t3/t4 hybrid....beast .

As long as you use the proper sized jets for nitrous and fuel, you will be safe to a certain point. For the safety of your motor, i wouldn't go over a 50 shot and have it turn off at around 5psi. This can be done with a boost pressure switch.

If you have the supporting fuel mods and a logger, turn up the boost.

 

[2DaTrakNow]

I ran across a guy with an ELM323 OBD-II Version 2.0 This is fairly cheap, but does it include everything that i will need to safely log my data?

Here is my other option, just with out the palm becasue i already have on.
http://www.dsmloggers.com/2gkit.html With this, i will also need to buy a wideband right? Other than not tellhing the A/F ratio, this tells a ton of info. Heres a link to the info
http://www.dsmloggers.com/palm.html

My third option, which is quite pricey is http://www.pocketlogger.com/?pid=###t with this http://www.zeitronix.com/

What do you guys think? The third option seems too expensive compared to the others, plus i dont get it all in one kit. I have to buy one thing from one company and another thing from a different company. The second one seems good and includes alot of info, but i will still need to buy a wideband. I kind of like the first option, but what do you guys think? I want to buy all of the logging hardware/software that i can in one step, so that i can safely spray my nitrous. The only thing i need after the logger is the dry to wet conversion kit.

 

[Marc91GSX]

That all makes sense, i will keep you guys posted on how it goes. My goal is to be sprayin by Arpil 12, so hopefully i will have my results then I will also have my 1/4 mile to post up, the only problem is that i will still have a one wheel peel with some sucky tires so my time might not be the best!

In a FWD it's all about trap speeds anyways . I knew a guy that dyno'd 604 FWHP and ran mid 12s at 130mph on slicks .

 

[DGajre777]

I ran across a guy with an ELM323 OBD-II Version 2.0 This is fairly cheap, but does it include everything that i will need to safely log my data?

Here is my other option, just with out the palm becasue i already have on.
http://www.dsmloggers.com/2gkit.html With this, i will also need to buy a wideband right? Other than not tellhing the A/F ratio, this tells a ton of info. Heres a link to the info
http://www.dsmloggers.com/palm.html

My third option, which is quite pricey is http://www.pocketlogger.com/?pid=###t with this http://www.zeitronix.com/

What do you guys think? The third option seems too expensive compared to the others, plus i dont get it all in one kit. I have to buy one thing from one company and another thing from a different company. The second one seems good and includes alot of info, but i will still need to buy a wideband. I kind of like the first option, but what do you guys think? I want to buy all of the logging hardware/software that i can in one step, so that i can safely spray my nitrous. The only thing i need after the logger is the dry to wet conversion kit.

Instead of getting a logger + SAFC + MAFT (if you want to vent) + wideband, you might as well get DSMLink and wideband o2 probe.

With 550cc injectors, you can tune with a MAFT + logger or SAFC
With 660cc injectors, you can tune with a SAFC + logger
With anything over 660cc injectors, you need DSMLink or some thing other than SAFC/MAFT.

I suggest that instead of getting nitrous on a T25, get other supporting mods for your future 50 trim.

 

[2DaTrakNow]

In a FWD it's all about trap speeds anyways . I knew a guy that dyno'd 604 FWHP and ran mid 12s at 130mph on slicks .

Did he have an automatic or what was his dis-advantage? 604 hp with slicks should be AT LEAST 1.5 seconds better than 12! There is a girl that i know with a 400 hp SRT-4, and with slicks she runs an 11.5 all day long. She has a stock tranny, stock internals, no nitrous, no weight saving option, nothing, just 400 hp worth of engine bolt ons and slicks.
604 hp + slicks + decent driver = min. of 11.0

 

[2DaTrakNow]

Instead of getting a logger + SAFC + MAFT (if you want to vent) + wideband, you might as well get DSMLink and wideband o2 probe.

With 550cc injectors, you can tune with a MAFT + logger or SAFC
With 660cc injectors, you can tune with a SAFC + logger
With anything over 660cc injectors, you need DSMLink or some thing other than SAFC/MAFT.

I suggest that instead of getting nitrous on a T25, get other supporting mods for your future 50 trim.

Well i want to vent, so either way i am going to get the MAFT. The only problem now is the $$ for the DSMlink. I want to wait until i have my turbo, and then i will buy the DSMLink. For now though, i just want a logger. Because I will be able to spray with the fuel upgrades i currently have. Ill leave the stock injectors for now, and when i get the DSMLink and 50 trim, ill upgrade everything that needs to be upgraded. So for now, i just want what i need to use my nitrous.

 

[2DaTrakNow]

Im sooooo confused!!!!!!!!!!! Some people tell me one thing i can do, others tell me some stuff i should do....Will the majority of you agree that i can do this....
1. Install my 255 Walbro fuel pump and Aeromotive FPR
2. Spray my wet nitrous safely, even though i wont have a logger or any tuning device, just maybe a MAF-T?!?!
3. Save up alot of money
4. Finally get a DSMLink
5. (kind of goes with #4) Get bigger injectors, bigger turbo, FMIC, etc.

I dont want to get all of this logging stuff, and a stand alone and then once i get huge injectors and a 50 trim get rid of all of it, to replace it with a dsmlink. SprayinGST did his nitrous and his car ran beautiful. He also had a dry shot...ill be getting a wet shot, and the fuel upgrades to flow qutie a bit. If i can just install my fuel stuff, and spray wet, i honestly think that i should be fine...but alot of you guys know more about it than me, so can i get an honest opinion from a few people about my idea. If you have true hands on experience with nitrous, let me know. Once i get the rest of the info i need, i promise i wont bring this up again!

 

[MitsuBoost]

Heres how i would do it with your setup

wet spray
fuel pump
SAFC
logger
wideband


i dont see the need for injectors because the fuel jet should be taking care of the mixture, the SAFC to fine tune, fuel pump to ensure your not running out of fuel, logger and wideband to view your results.

 

[Irrational]

DO NOT spray with out some way of logging

 

[2DaTrakNow]

Heres how i would do it with your setup

wet spray
fuel pump
SAFC
logger
wideband


i dont see the need for injectors because the fuel jet should be taking care of the mixture, the SAFC to fine tune, fuel pump to ensure your not running out of fuel, logger and wideband to view your results.

There isnt a need for injectors right now, but when i get my 50 trim i will need them. Plus, if i am going to get an SAFC, wideband, and a logger....why dont i just spend that money on a DSMLink and get it all over in one step? Also, by doing that, i will be ready to tune once i get bigger injectors and a bigger turbo. The other three things wont do me the most good, once i get a 50 trim. So that is why i am trying to buy only what i need and wont need to replace or get rid of later on. If the best way to go, would be to get a DSMLink, then i could wait a few more weeks and hopefully get one.

 

[DGajre777]

There isnt a need for injectors right now, but when i get my 50 trim i will need them. Plus, if i am going to get an SAFC, wideband, and a logger....why dont i just spend that money on a DSMLink and get it all over in one step? Also, by doing that, i will be ready to tune once i get bigger injectors and a bigger turbo. The other three things wont do me the most good, once i get a 50 trim. So that is why i am trying to buy only what i need and wont need to replace or get rid of later on. If the best way to go, would be to get a DSMLink, then i could wait a few more weeks and hopefully get one.

Which is what I said. Just buy a DSMLink and get it all over in one step. Also, there is supposed to be a new version of DSMLink, version 3, which is supposed to have a MAFT on it, so you don't need to get a seperate MAFT. From what I've read, the company will be giving upgrades to exisiting members who have version 2 of dsmlink when version 3 comes out. It probably won't be out until the summer though.

With DSMLink (version 3), you won't need the logger or SAFC or MAFT or a seperate wideband unit. I'd get the DSMlink, if I were you.

 

[Irrational]

There isnt a need for injectors right now, but when i get my 50 trim i will need them. Plus, if i am going to get an SAFC, wideband, and a logger....why dont i just spend that money on a DSMLink and get it all over in one step? Also, by doing that, i will be ready to tune once i get bigger injectors and a bigger turbo. The other three things wont do me the most good, once i get a 50 trim. So that is why i am trying to buy only what i need and wont need to replace or get rid of later on. If the best way to go, would be to get a DSMLink, then i could wait a few more weeks and hopefully get one.

I thought the whole point of this tread was to get the NOS on your car the cheepist safest way possible. Shit why don't you just go fully build 2.3 with a gt42 direct port NOS and a Stand alone ? that would be way better then a dsmlink!!!! my point being where are you drawing the line?

 

[Enraged78]

I used to work for a dyno shop and have performed a few wet kit installs with dyno tuning. I have also dyno'd a few dry kit installs. The results are quite good if you take the time to do it right.

First off, make sure that your car is absoltely, postitively, running 100%. That means no platinum crap plugs, no boost leaks, no check engine lights, and no leaks of any kind.

Second, unless you REALLY know what you're doing, stay away from a dry kit. Get a wet kit. As a previous poster stated, more fuel is better than less, so if you're going to run a 50 shot (I wouldn't go over that), use a richer jet for the time being. Whatever you do, don't go leaner than the nitrous jet you plan to use. Also, get a datalogger, and learn how to use it. There are many resources available on this board for you to do this, and they aren't very expensive. For whatever kit you use, talk to a shop that can tell you which spark plugs to run. You are going to want a plug that's at least one heat range colder. Most kits will tell you to run colder plugs in the installation manual. If you can afford it, get a bottle heater, and make sure that any nitrous line you run is sheathed when it travels through sheet metal. You don't want your lines rubbing. Don't cheap out on quality solenoids. Good solenoids are all that are standing in the way of you and a blown motor.

Third, bring the car to a reputable dyno shop and have it properly tuned. A dyno shop will use a wideband A/F and will be able to safely help your car make the power it should, on pump gas if you choose, without detonating.

Finally, don't go chasing "magic numbers". If the car puts down 290 HP to the wheels when it's done being tuned, don't up the nitrous level "just to get 300". The car will TELL you what it wants to run at when you get it tuned. Listen to it, and you'll be fine.

Good luck,
Matt.

 

[2DaTrakNow]

I thought the whole point of this tread was to get the NOS on your car the cheepist safest way possible. Shit why don't you just go fully build 2.3 with a gt42 direct port NOS and a Stand alone ? that would be way better then a dsmlink!!!! my point being where are you drawing the line?

Yes, the point of this thread was to get my NOS on my car in the cheapest and safest way possible, BUT i dont want to go and buy all of the tunning and logging stuff needed now, and then get rid of it later when i get a DSMLink. The reason that i dont just buy the DSMLink now is mainly because i dont have the $$$. Once summer comes though, i will be able to do a ton of mods (DSMLink, 50 trim, injectors, LSD, etc.). Now, if i can't run my nitrous safely without spending alot of money on stuff that i will get rid of later, then i will just wait until i get my DSMLink to start spraying. Do you see where i am coming from?

Also, i dont know if that was a smart ass remark, or if you were serious about the 2.3, direct port, and a stand alone....but the reason i dont do that is because that will cost a ton more than a DSMLink. So you ask where i am drawing the line, well...as long as i keep working, i am never going to draw a line and stop modding my car. Someday i might just get a 2.3, and have a full blow drag car with 600 hp. But for now...i obviously cant do that. Since i am never going to stop modding my car though, i want to get stuff that i can use forever, and nothing i will have to replace once more mods are added.

So if there is no (safe) way that i can spray nitrous on my car, without getting loggers and tuning parts that i will get rid of once i get a DSMLink, i will just go ahead and wait until i can afford everything to do it the right way. Im just confused on why i cant do that, looks at what SprayinGS-T said "Injectors + A/F gauge + FPR and you will be able to compensate for the extra need for fuel. My first engine had nearly zero tuning, i didnt have any logging or a MafT. Also keep in mind I'm not saying this is an ideal setup, im just saying I did it, and it worked for me. Yes, my kit is a dry kit. Its a NOS kit that i modified to run off a WOT switch instead of the push button. " He had no tunning done, and no logger. He was also running with a dry set up and no aftermarket fuel pump. I will have a wet kit, fuel pump, FPR, and i could get an A/F gauge. Im just confused about that, because everybody says it cant be done...but if thats the case, SprayingGS-T just did an impossible miracle....he did what i am trying to do...only dry and w/out a fuel pump which is even more insane.....can somebody explain this to me???????

 

[madman]

Since you are not getting a definate answere here, have you tried calling the company ( NOS ) and see if they have a tech support.

They should know almost better than anyone what is needed in order to "safley" use their product.

Good luck.

 

[DGajre777]

can somebody explain this to me???????

NOS doesn't make dry kits for Turbo DSMs, that doesn't mean that someone can't use a dry kit on a turbo car if they REALLY wanted to.

From NOS's website:

The Best Sport Compact Wet & Dry Systems

Owners of sport compacts can benefit from nitrous power, as NOS has developed safe, reliable and highly effective kits that produce from 40 to 60 hp for a large number of applications. Most of these employ "dry" injection technology, where the OEM fuel injection provides the required additional fuel to the motor only when the nitrous system is armed and activated at W.O.T. (wide open throttle). All systems provide excellent fuel/nitrous distribution to each cylinder. "Wet" type kits are offered for most turbocharged and supercharged applications due to the increased air velocity and extra heat from the forced induction. With over 20 years experience, NOS knows what it takes to make power... safely and reliably!

Mitsubishi
DRY - 05122NOS (A,B) 1.5-2.0L, EFI, non-turbo
DRY - 05122NOS (A,B) Eclipse, 1.8-2.0L non-turbo (to 1996)
DRY - 05122NOS (A,B) 3000GT, 3.0L, non-turbo
WET - 05208NOS (A,B) 3000GT turbo and Eclipse turbo

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS
The EFI kits are designed for use with engines that are basically stock. A stock fuel pump should be adequate, however many pumps decline performance over the years and it is important to have a fuel pump that meets NEW specs. Use only premium grade pump gasoline (92+ octane) or unleaded racing fuel. In many instances, a high output ignition and free-flowing exhaust system may benefit performance. Do not use aftermarket chips or other devices that advance ignition timing, as detonation may occur.

From ZEX's website:

EFI NITROUS SYSTEMS

Q: What is the difference between a "wet" nitrous kit and a "dry" nitrous kit?
A: A wet nitrous kit mixes nitrous and enrichment fuel by means of an injector nozzle that is mounted before the throttle body. This mixture is then drawn into the engine through the throttle body and intake manifold. A "dry" nitrous kit injects only nitrous with it's injector while at the same time, increasing the engine's fuel rail pressure to feed enrichment fuel through the engine's own injectors.
Duh, we all know that....

Q: What is better, a "wet" or "dry" kit?
A: It all depends on the application. A "wet" kit is ideal for both normally aspirated applications as well as forced induction applications. It can require a little bit more installation time than a "dry" kit, but is easier to tune if greater than stock HP settings are to be experimented with. A "dry" kit is excellent for normally aspirated combinations that have a return style fuel system. They are very easy to install and are a great "first time" nitrous system. It is not recommended that "dry" systems be used on forced induction engines.

Q: Do I have to change my spark plugs after installing the nitrous system?
A: YES, Due to the increase in horsepower the nitrous system creates, the quantity of heat generated in the combustion chamber goes up. It is required that you install spark plugs that have at least two steps colder heat range. This helps to ensure detonation free performance when using the nitrous system. ZEX™ has nitrous specific spark plugs available for many makes and models of vehicles.

4 & 6 Cylinder Nitrous System - Part #82021
A complete "Wet" nitrous system. Everything is included for a safe, proper installation.

• Designed to work safely on stock type engines, but is also engineered to perform flawlessly on highly modified turbocharged and supercharged combinations. The ideal nitrous system for any fuel injected vehicle.

• All major components are factory pre-assembled inside the "Nitrous Management Unit". Easy, plug and play, two-hour installation.

• ZEX Nitrous Systems have an advanced, patented feature called "Active Fuel Control". This feature monitors nitrous bottle pressure and adds or subtracts enrichment fuel so the engine never runs too rich, or too lean, when you engage the nitrous system.

• ZEX "Wet" nitrous systems activate at wide-open throttle using advanced electronics that monitor your engine's throttle position sensor. This makes using your nitrous system very easy and reliable


Does this help?

And who do you want to believe? Companies who make their products and state that you can use it on a stock car or people who say you need a logger/fuel pump/MAFT (extra stuff) to use nitrous on a stock turbo? Is it good to have the extra stuff? Sure. Do you need the extra stuff when 2 companies say that you can run it on a stock car? No.

 

[2DaTrakNow]

NOS doesn't make dry kits for Turbo DSMs, that doesn't mean that someone can't use a dry kit on a turbo car if they REALLY wanted to....
............................
Does this help?
And who do you want to believe? Companies who make their products and state that you can use it on a stock car or people who say you need a logger/fuel pump/MAFT (extra stuff) to use nitrous on a stock turbo? Is it good to have the extra stuff? Sure. Do you need the extra stuff when 2 companies say that you can run it on a stock car? No.

Thank you! the answer i was looking for... I have read the directions on my NOS kit, and i've seen where it said something like "when used properly, nitrous can be completely saffe on a stock engine" The only thing that my kit recomended, was in some cars, a higher flowing fuel pump. Also, i know that NOS doesnt make dry kits for turbo DSM's. But, i ended up getting the dry kit for my old N/A 420a, because that it what quite a few companies recomended. Thanks for the info

 

[Enraged78]

Thank you! the answer i was looking for... I have read the directions on my NOS kit, and i've seen where it said something like "when used properly, nitrous can be completely saffe on a stock engine" The only thing that my kit recomended, was in some cars, a higher flowing fuel pump. Also, i know that NOS doesnt make dry kits for turbo DSM's. But, i ended up getting the dry kit for my old N/A 420a, because that it what quite a few companies recomended. Thanks for the info

The statement in your NOS kit is not taking into account a turbocharged engine. Most entry level dry kits modify the Fuel Pressure Regulator to increase pressure to the fuel rail, thus increasing the fuel delivery of the injectors without increasing the amount of time they are actually open. This fools the computer into adding extra fuel for the nitrous. Because this is happening at WOT, the ECU never checks to make sure how rich it's actually running, so the system works fine for an N/A car.

Your DSM has a Fuel Pressure Regualator that adds additional fuel pressure based on the amound of boost you're running. This means that if you go WOT, your turbo spools, and your nitrous hits, you may not have enough 'extra room' on your fuel pressure regulator to support the requirements of both the turbo AND the nitrous. This could cause a lean condition, which you DON'T want.

Wet kits tap into the fuel rail, and use a seperate fuel controller to operate a seperate injector that mixes with the nitrous when it comes on. The FPR is still keeping your fuel pressure at the same rate, and your fuel pump works a little harder to keep the rail up to the same pressure it was before.

Long story short: Don't use a dry kit on your turbocharged DSM unless you REALLY know what you're doing. Sell it and get a wet kit. Then go to the dyno to see what your car is really doing.

It sounds like you were only waiting for the answer you wanted to hear instead of listening to folks who have done this before.

Matt.

 

[2DaTrakNow]

...Long story short: Don't use a dry kit on your turbocharged DSM unless you REALLY know what you're doing. Sell it and get a wet kit. Then go to the dyno to see what your car is really doing.

It sounds like you were only waiting for the answer you wanted to hear instead of listening to folks who have done this before.

Matt.

I am not going to use a dry kit, like i stated several times earlier. I said that i have a dry kit, and i am going to get the dry to wet conversion. I wasn't necessarily waiting for the answer that i wanted to hear, i was waiting for a legitimate answer from somebody who has does this before, and i got a ton of responses from people have have never used or hooked up nitrous. There was a lot of the "well ive heard..." and "i think that...". Im not saying that those peices of information don't help, because they do. They let me know what other people would do if they were going to run nitrous. So yes, i did want to hear what others would do, IF they ran nitrous, but i wanted more info from those that HAVE ran it before.

Beings how Holly themselves made the instructions for the NOS system, and stated that with stock engine parts, the nitrous will be fine if used properly, I am going to go ahead and spray my nitrous wet, and my fuel upgrades are going to be what i currently have. A FPR and 255 pump. Now, you may be thinking that when i read the directions that said stock parts would be fine, might only be in the dry kit instructions, its not. The part that i read was for any nitrous system from NOS. Almost the first half of my packet had both wet and dry pre-cautions and info. The second half related pretty much to just dry.

So if i look at the odds...NOS says it is ok, and SprayinGS-T got away with a dry kit. I think that i should be fine. For the most part, the only people that dont recommend it are the ones that havn't ran it. Which i can understand because its better to be too careful and cautious over just hooking it up and going. But i will keep finding some more info, hook up my nitrous, and let everybody know how it goes.