Newbie to Cars . . . Looking at DSMs

[SPX]

Just as the title suggests, I really know very little about cars. The extent of my knowledge basically amounts to: the engine makes it go, the transmission makes it change gears, more horsepower means faster.

Don't make fun of me.

With that said, I want to learn. It's really something I should've done years ago (I'm 29) but didn't really have the money and/or didn't put the time into it. Truth be told, I'm actually quite broke even today. And that's kind of the reason I'm looking at 1G and 2G Eclipses. When I was in high school I always wanted an Eclipse, and now that they are in the $2K to $4K range I might actually be able to afford one.

My goal though is to not just buy one, but turn it into a respectable performance machine.

My goals are thus:

Good Performance: I want ~300hp with tight stearing and generally good performance. Pretty simple.

Good looks: I will admit that I love the Fast and the Furious movies. In fact, I am unrepentant about this. The green Eclipse in the first film is beautiful. So I want every gaudy ricer addition I can get: body kit, spoiler, glowing gauges, lambo doors, neon underglow, etc.

Basically I need some good souls to take me under their wing and hold my hand through this process.

Any help would certainly be appreciated. So . . . any takers?

 

[phunny]

I'm down brother . Not long ago I was in your same shoes. My first new car was a 99 Eclipse RS and I've been hooked every since. I have a couple pieces of advice that will help you a lot along the way.

First, since your price range of a car that's at least 12 years old, your first requirement should be to make sure it has a great source of info. I have owned MANY MANY cars from a few grand up to 70k + and was on forums for every single one and I can promise you that DSMtuners has by far, hands down, the absolute BEST information, help, guidance you will ever find on the web. This alone will save you more money than you can count and make life soooo much easier.

Second, you'll need the ability to listen to others and be willing to step out of your comfort zone in order to get maintenance and repairs done. Yes these vehicles are cheap, and yes they can outperform cars that are worth 20 times what you pay for them. BUT if you don't do the maintenance they WILL make you pay for it dearly. And having a shop do the maintenance (IE timing belt/water pump) is a $1,000+ job if you can't do it yourself. And remember what I said right before this last sentence? If not, I'll reiterate, if you DO NOT do the maintenance (when it's do) you WILL pay dearly.

Thirdly, guys WILL flame you about body kits and neons. I personally think that when done right they are awesome. Just learn to brush these fools off and do what you like.

 

[SPX]

Phunny, you are the man. I really appreciate your thorough, non-elitist, non-sarcastic reply.

Right now I'm trying to get the money together for even a base level car to begin the mods on. I should've done it a few months ago when I got $2,200 back from taxes. That really was the time, and unfortunately most of it's gone now. But I will find a way!

I'm glad to hear your confidence in this site. It makes me more confident in the information I'll receive!

Regarding listening to others and stepping out of my comfort zone, I'm okay with that. I don't mind putting in the time and effort . . . I just need to know what to do. I'm for damn sure no mechanic. I'm almost embarrassed at my lack of knowledge. But you gotta start somewhere, right? With clear instructions I think I can get it done as long as I don't need a hydraulic lift or something like that.

Now, bodykits and neons. I've lurked here enough to realize that that kind of thing catches some heat, but whatever. I really don't care. I know what I want my car to look like and if other people don't like it, well, like you say "brush these fools off."

Thanks again for the response.

 

[phunny]

There is every instruction you'll ever need on here. Both regular repairs and modding alike. Heck, there are pictures of almost anything you'll ever need to do. And if you need a picture or anything further explained, you will get it in a hurry here. I've been on this site for years and still haven't put a dent in reading all the info on here.

 

[SPX]

Let's talk availability. . .

One thing I've noticed is that, especially for 1Gs, there just aren't that many of them around. I searched Autotrader for 1G turbos with manual transmissions and ended up--for the entire US--with something like 12 results.

What's the best way to find these cars?

 

[phunny]

There are a lot for sale but the problem is most won't pay $100+ to sell a car for 1-2k. Craigslist, ebay, cars.com, and here are some of the best places.

 

[91Bomb]

I found several turbo 1g's in my area on Craigslist back when I bought mine last year but I'm 15 mi outside NYC so lots more cars around here than Utah .... and mine's FWD which I don't mind since I'm sticking with modest HP increases.

 

[SPX]

Okay, thanks.

Now give it to me straight: How much money do I need? Realistically? And how about buying cars out of state? It's difficult to go kick the tires when that's the case.

 

[phunny]

Okay, thanks.

Now give it to me straight: How much money do I need? Realistically? And how about buying cars out of state? It's difficult to go kick the tires when that's the case.

A couple grand should net you a nice 1G

 

[SPX]

91bomb, thanks for the info.

Yeah . . . NYC . . . SLC . . . you're right, not really the same thing. I actually wouldn't mind traveling to pick a car up . . . but knowing it's a GOOD car seems difficult.

A couple grand should net you a nice 1G

That's what I was thinking. God, I hate being poor.

And what about the out-of-state situation?

 

[91Bomb]

1g turbo I would be figuring anywhere between 2 and 3 grand. I paid 2k for my M/T turbo fwd but needed a clutch right away so that cost another 400 bux. I compression tested motor before buying and #'s were real good so I bought it.

I'd never buy a dsm without having some spare money put aside because if turbo needs replacing for example then for a new s16g with gaskets and 2g mani upgrade you're looking at an easy $700. Of course you can buy a good used turbo in that situation but it's still a couple hundred bucks when you figure in cost of new gaskets + misc.

These are resonable cars to own IF you have the knowledge to work on them because used parts are plentiful and cheap enough.

So yeah I'd invest 2-3k in a good running 1g turbo car and these motors are known to go 200k+ mi and all 3 of mine hit over 175,000 mi including my current one at close to 180,000 mi now

 

[SPX]

Thanks again for the info.

Back on the subject of my abysmal ignorance, I have actually read up on what to look for when it comes to these cars . . . but the problem is that the stuff I read is pretty much Greek to me. Obviously I can understand something like "vibration at high speeds" but some of the more technical stuff is out the window.

The extent of my ability to check it out beforehand would be to go look at it, make sure it appears in good physical condition, test drive it to make sure there's nothing that's just obviously wrong with it, and take it to the Mitsu dealership and have them run a 180 point check.

Again though, there's the issue of possibly having to look hundreds or even thousands of miles away. I've seen a few cars in the last few days on eBay, Autotrader, etc that looked promising but they end up being in North Carolina or something like that. Obviously I'm not going all the way to NC just to look at it.

So any thoughts on purchasing sight unseen? Or how would you handle it if you just couldn't find one in your area?

 

[Absit]

Travel or don't buy one, period.

 

[91Bomb]

On a 1g turbo selling for 2-3k i'd mainly be concerned about engine compression #'s and Carfax report. Then I'd basically be trying to see if tranny feels good and check if turbo is free of shaft play. On a lower priced + older car like a turbo 1g a 180 point inspecion might be futile. If tires are worn, t-belt hasn't been done in a long time etc etc then maybe try talking the guy down a couple hundred. But if body is real nice, engine checks out, tranny feels good, then I'd buy it if you're talking 2-3 grand. If you're purchasing something that's modded or super clean and it's going for $3500 or higher than maybe think about getting it looked at closely.

 

[SPX]

Okay, some interesting comments here.

"Engine compression #s" goes over my head. How would I check this? Perhaps more importantly, what does that even mean?

Carfax report I get.

"Turbo is free of shaft play" . . . again, not sure what this means. Teach me.

Why do you say that a 180 point inspection might be futile? I figured that's the most direct route to finding out if there are any obvious problems.

I would probably not buy something that's already been modded, mostly because I'm looking forward to the experience of doing it myself (and also because my funds are limited). There's something compelling about taking an average car and turning it into something grand.

To get off the subject of DSMs (is that allowed?), I saw a car the other day that really impressed me. It it was a Geo Storm that had been modded and was not only fast but looked pretty damn good as well. I pretty much look at the Storm as a serious POS and the fact that someone was able to turn it into a performance machine was impressive to me.

That's what I want to do. Money is the ever-looming factor, though. I really need a car that I can take from being someone's after-thought and turn it into something that both performs well and looks good, all for $10K total or less. One thing I don't want to do is buy something typical like a Civic, though. I guess I just like being different, even though Eclipses really aren't THAT different.

 

[IgnorantHeart]

I've had civics, preludes, integras. They all have fallen very short performance wise to my laser. I personally love my 1g, my buddies 91 tsi is the main reason for this. Like they previously stated make sure you have some money on the side "just in-case" I traded my 92 civic si for the laser and after putting in close to $700 just in maintenance I would still do the trade in a heartbeat. It's all about preference and what you like in a car. People can tell you that you made a horrible decision on you're purchase but in the end it all comes down to what you think and how you feel about it. Sorry, its 3am and I'm rambling on.

I've had civics, preludes, integras. They all have fallen very short performance wise to my laser. I personally love my 1g, my buddies 91 tsi is the main reason for this. Like they previously stated make sure you have some money on the side "just in-case" I traded my 92 civic si for the laser and after putting in close to $700 just in maintenance I would still do the trade in a heartbeat. It's all about preference and what you like in a car. People can tell you that you made a horrible decision on you're purchase but in the end it all comes down to what you think and how you feel about it. Sorry, its 3am and I'm rambling on.

Quote fail sorry

 

[Blurred Talon]

VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questions and most importantly for a beginner; 1000 Already Answered Questions - Index page. The 1000AAQ will answer a lot of questions for you.

How and more HP doesn't mean faster, yes it has the potential to be fast but if you can't drive it good, it won't be fast.

 

[phunny]

Here is what turbo shaft play is. All you have to do is remove the intake from the turbocharger, very easy. YouTube - ‪Turbo Shaft Play‬‏

A compression test is when they remove the spark plugs and screw down a device that has a pressure gauge on it. As you turn over the motor is builds pressure in the cylinder and you read that number. Each cylinder is done individually and is also VERY easy to do.

The 180 check is useless because these cars are 20 years old and there are going to be things you fix along the way. If you were to fix EVERYTHING right up front, might get very expensive.

 

[leesmawley]

There's a 92 here in my area on CL for 1000$...picts look ok, but i'm in East TN.

About 2 months ago we bought my daughter a 99 rs, 420a as a college driver. Since then (we were lied to) we've put a transmission and newer motor in her. It's running great now

I originally got a service manual to help since i hadn't worked on anything since the days of the 4 barrel carb. I knew really nothing about DSM's. Then i stumbled on this sight when doing a search on an issue. This is the place to be!!

The information on here and the folks that have "been there, done that" is priceless. I found these cars are really easy to work on. And if you get stumped, the folks on here seem more than happy to help. It's amazing what i've learned in just a few short weeks.

I just picked up a 97 rs about a week ago. I'm planning on fixing it up as a DD. My ultimate goal is a AWD GSX I hope buy next year. Learning on the RS i hope helps when i do the "step up".

What ever path you take...these cars are great. Don't be intimidated by the lack of mechanical knowledge. Get yourself a descent set of metric sockets and wrenches, ask the questions and your on your way.

Good luck to you !! When it happen, please post picts so we can share in your journey...

 

[4g6slo]

Hey man I'm late to the show but these cars are really amazing like jeeeezus but if you can take the criticism there are a lot of great guys and gals on this site that can pretty much help or point you to someone that knows what's going on no one here is a DSM god but there are some that are dang close ....welcome to the forum and good luck on your future build.

 

[SPX]

VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questions and most importantly for a beginner; 1000 Already Answered Questions - Index page. The 1000AAQ will answer a lot of questions for you.

How and more HP doesn't mean faster, yes it has the potential to be fast but if you can't drive it good, it won't be fast.

Thanks for that info. I've actually looked through that site. Some of it I understand, some I don't.

Hopefully I'll come to understand a lot more as I go.

Maybe I should buy a book on basic mechanics.

Here is what turbo shaft play is. All you have to do is remove the intake from the turbocharger, very easy.[/url]

Okay, cool. But what exactly was it that he was doing?

A compression test is when they remove the spark plugs and screw down a device that has a pressure gauge on it. As you turn over the motor is builds pressure in the cylinder and you read that number. Each cylinder is done individually and is also VERY easy to do.

Okay. I'm guessing I would need to take it to a shop for this.

The 180 check is useless because these cars are 20 years old and there are going to be things you fix along the way. If you were to fix EVERYTHING right up front, might get very expensive.

Do they not check anything that might indicate engine or transmission problems?

The reason I ask is because about 13 years ago I got my first car. It was a Nissan Pulsar . . . and also like the worst first car any kid could have. We took it for a diagnostics check and the guy basically said he didn't recommend we buy it. I can't remember why, but we did anyway, and it ran okay for a about month before it got parked. I eventually had to get the transmission replaced and also had to get a head gasket problem fixed. I think in the year and a half or so that I had it it never ran for more than about a month at a time.

There's a 92 here in my area on CL for 1000$...picts look ok, but i'm in East TN.

I actually grew up in Memphis. And $1000 sounds a lot better to me than $2000! I need to find a deal like that.

I knew really nothing about DSM's.

This brings me to another interesting question. How much about knowing how to work on DSMs is pretty much the same as knowing how to work on any car, and how much of it is specialized knowledge that's specific to these models?

What ever path you take...these cars are great. Don't be intimidated by the lack of mechanical knowledge. Get yourself a descent set of metric sockets and wrenches, ask the questions and your on your way.

Good luck to you !! When it happen, please post picts so we can share in your journey...

Good advice. Thanks!

And yeah, I basically want to take this entire journey with you guys, from start to finish. This is just the first step. I'm trying to build a few relationships now so that I'll have a few friends down the road.

By the way, I'm actually selling a computer tomorrow for $425. That should get me ~a quarter of the way to getting started, I hope.