new shoes

[gbell]

Ok, so I have been planning on getting new wheels and tires for a while and now I have the moeny to do so. I have done some research and it seems like I should get a 17x8 wheel with a +40mm offset. I think I will be running some O.Z. Ultraleggra's, probably in the graphite silver

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/Disp...ltraleggera&wheelFinish=Matte+Graphite+Silver

I want to run a 245/40/17 tire. Not sure what tire to get yet. Its pretty much just going to see daily driving for now. I was think of getting a Kumho ECSTA SPT. But I have also thought of getting one of those winter performance tires since the weather is starting to get worse. If I had those I could go on the mountain. THe Dunlop Winter Sport M3 looks nice. Anybody have experience with either of these tires.

My second question is whether I am going to have any problems with rubbing. It seems like my offset should be good and that is the largest tire I can run. My suspension is stock because I need to ride height because I sometimes drive on a driveway that requires it and like I said I want to maybe go in the snow. So with the stock suspension am I going to have to roll my fenders?

Also I was curious is there is anything I can do to improve the suspension without having to drop my car nearly 2 inches? I know about sway bars and strut bars, just wondering if there was anything else.

 

[DSMSpyder99]

i run 17x8 with a 35mm offset with 245/40. When my car was at stock height i had no rubbing. Even lowered i BARELY have rubbing problems. It doesnt happen that often so i dont raise my coilovers.

 

[clipsit]

I have done some research and it seems like I should get a 17x8 wheel with a +40mm offset.

I'd say get them in a 35mm offset though, b/c I am pretty sure that is the stock offset for our cars and evo's?

 

[wret]

I'd say get them in a 35mm offset though, b/c I am pretty sure that is the stock offset for our cars and evo's?

Wrong. Stock for DSM is +46mm. +40mm is the best offset choice for 245 width tires.

 

[clipsit]

Wrong. Stock for DSM is +46mm. +40mm is the best offset choice for 245 width tires.

Thanks I stand corrected, just evo's then...

 

[clipsit]

b/c I am pretty sure that is the stock offset for our cars

That's why I said I am PRETTY sure wret...

 

[asian312]

Stock ride height should be fine without any rubbing issues. I ran 17x9 with 255/40/17 and didnt have any issues at stock height (these do not tuck under the fender). Just helping to reaffirm.

 

[gbell]

Ok sounds like I shouldn't have any rubbing at stock height. Anyone have any comments on tire selection? How ahout ways to improve handling without a large drop in height?

 

[asian312]

On an 8" wheel I'm sure one of the recommended tires will be a Kumho MX in 245/40/17. The tires alone will make the car fell very different. Stiffer sidewalls will make steer responce a little sharper and the extra width will provide more grip during accelerating, cornering, and braking.

 

[daren_p]

I'd say get them in a 35mm offset though, b/c I am pretty sure that is the stock offset for our cars and evo's?

Even if that was correct, it wouldn't matter much here as he's not going with the same rim width as stock
(offset is from the centerline of the rim, change the width and it changes where the rim sits even when the offset remains the same)

Does anyone have pics of their 8" rims on a lowered vehicle in both 35 & 40mm offset? I was just curious because Im probably changining my rims & I had thought about 8" but I didn't think a 40mm offset would fit because currently with my 7.5" rims & 43mm offset I have maybe 5mm between the tire and the bar that goes from the top control arm to the hub & this is with a 225 tire, so an 8" rim with 40 offset will work out to be slightly closer. Seems to me that this wouldn't work in my case but others aren't having issues?

 

[clipsit]

Even if that was correct, it wouldn't matter much here as he's not going with the same rim width as stock
(offset is from the centerline of the rim, change the width and it changes where the rim sits even when the offset remains the same)

Thanks daren p I stand corrected earlier, but thanks for being cool about it. I was trying to help and gave bad info and am sorry, so if I so hurt anyones feelings then I am sorry... . I guess you learn something new everyday, as I thought that 35mm was the stock offset and I was misinformed and have seen evo wheels on 2g's, which I am putting my buddies on this weekend, so I thought they could be put on w/ out spacers and what not, so you can see how I was misinformed on this too.... Thanks again though...

 

[daren_p]

Thanks daren p I stand corrected earlier, but thanks for being cool about it. I was trying to help and gave bad info and am sorry, so if I so hurt anyones feelings then I am sorry... . I guess you learn something new everyday, as I thought that 35mm was the stock offset and I was misinformed and have seen evo wheels on 2g's, which I am putting my buddies on this weekend, so I thought they could be put on w/ out spacers and what not, so you can see how I was misinformed on this too.... Thanks again though...

If the evo wheels are infact 8" & have a 35mm offset, then yes your correct they will go on ours cars without any interior rubbing as the smaller the offset the further it pushes the rim out . For this reason you wouldn't need any spacers. If those are the correct specs, seems some don't like this setup as they think the rim looks to far "pushed out", not sure which gen would be more affected by this, I think the 2g's have the larger fenders so this wouldn't be as noticeable as it would on a 1g.

 

[wret]

Ok sounds like I shouldn't have any rubbing at stock height. Anyone have any comments on tire selection? How ahout ways to improve handling without a large drop in height?

Are you trying to optimize your setup for winter handling? There was a recent discussion about snow tires here.

Regardless of whether you are optimizing the winter or summer handling characteristics, tires will be the single biggest factor. The best winter tires may give decent dry handling but no summer high performance tire will really be safe in snow. Are you planning on swapping out your winter tires in the spring?

The next biggest element affecting handling is the shocks and then springs. Now may not be the time to think about upgrading unless your current setup is not able to survive a few months until spring.

What are your goals?

 

[wret]

Does anyone have pics of their 8" rims on a lowered vehicle in both 35 & 40mm offset? I was just curious because Im probably changining my rims & I had thought about 8" but I didn't think a 40mm offset would fit because currently with my 7.5" rims & 43mm offset I have maybe 5mm between the tire and the bar that goes from the top control arm to the hub & this is with a 225 tire, so an 8" rim with 40 offset will work out to be slightly closer. Seems to me that this wouldn't work in my case but others aren't having issues?

The width of the rim has little or no effect on the rub points on a 2g. 40mm offset wheels center the tire very well, which is very important when using 245 width tires. On a lowered car, if you use a lower offset, like +35mm, you will either have rubbing at the fender lip, or have to live with a more than desirable amount of negative camber.

Did you actually measure the clearance at the rear knuckle with your current set up? If you did, I think you would be surprised to find out how much clearance there really is. I used 245/40/18 tires for several years on 8.5 inch, +40mm offset wheels. When my last set of Falken Azenis ST-115s was new, there was about 4mm of clearance. I had some pics in my gallery but they got wiped out during the server upgrade but trust me, they fit. No rubbing on either side.

 

[daren_p]

The width of the rim has little or no effect on the rub points on a 2g. 40mm offset wheels center the tire very well, which is very important when using 245 width tires. On a lowered car, if you use a lower offset, like +35mm, you will either have rubbing at the fender lip, or have to live with a more than desirable amount of negative camber.

Did you actually measure the clearance at the rear knuckle with your current set up? If you did, I think you would be surprised to find out how much clearance there really is. I used 245/40/18 tires for several years on 8.5 inch, +40mm offset wheels. When my last set of Falken Azenis ST-115s was new, there was about 4mm of clearance. I had some pics in my gallery but they got wiped out during the server upgrade but trust me, they fit. No rubbing on either side.

Not sure how you can say the rim width will have little or no effect on the knucle clearance, while there is lots of clearance at the rim lip the top tire of the tire, where the knuckle bends outwards is where the clearance issue Im talkin about is. And changing the rim width & adding a larger width tire will directly effect this (maybe you thought I was implying going to a larger width rims & keeping the same size tire, which I wasn't, obviously there would be no reason to get a larger width rim if I was keeping 225 tires)

On my current setup I have maybe 10mm at most I think the rears are closer their probably around 6 or 7 mm. I figured you wouldn't want to go much less then this because of possible rubbing with tire deflection. So you are saying you can go as low as 4mm clearance & never rub on the knuckle? What size/offset are the rims in your gallery & what size are the tires?

 

[jtmcinder]

The width of the rim has little or no effect on the rub points on a 2g.

I can't agree with this, either. A 245/45/16 Hoosier, for example, needs a small spacer to avoid rubbing on a +37 16x8.5, but fits without rubbing on a +38 16x8. Maybe this falls within the "little" range, as opposed to the "no effect" range, but when you are cutting it close, rim width can make or break a set-up.

- Jtoby

 

[wret]

Not sure how you can say the rim width will have little or no effect on the knucle clearance, while there is lots of clearance at the rim lip the top tire of the tire, where the knuckle bends outwards is where the clearance issue Im talkin about is. And changing the rim width & adding a larger width tire will directly effect this (maybe you thought I was implying going to a larger width rims & keeping the same size tire, which I wasn't, obviously there would be no reason to get a larger width rim if I was keeping 225 tires)

On my current setup I have maybe 10mm at most I think the rears are closer their probably around 6 or 7 mm. I figured you wouldn't want to go much less then this because of possible rubbing with tire deflection. So you are saying you can go as low as 4mm clearance & never rub on the knuckle? What size/offset are the rims in your gallery & what size are the tires?

The reason I say that the wheel width has little to no effect on rubbing, is that it doesn't figure into the calculation. The key variables are offset, tread width, and tire outside diameter. In order for the wheel width to change one of these variables it would have to change the tread width. It is well known that mounting a tire on a wheel that is too narrow can do this by causing the corners of the tread to pull up. It seems Jtoby has found an instance where wheel a wider wheel can make a wider tread width. Sounds like a stretch to me.

I believe the only photos left in my gallery are quite old and probably on 235/40/18s. I ran 245/40/18s after that and most recently 255/35/18’s.

I’ve seen the number 4mm tossed around as a safe minimum tire/knuckle clearance, though I don’t know where it originated. I’ve never really run closer than that myself but I’ve had no problem with 4mm clearances. Tread distortion from cornering force will only be where the tire meets the pavement, not at the knuckle. The only way I can see the clearance getting closer is if the bearings are worn and have more wobble than there is clearance.

 

[jtmcinder]

It all depends on the tire. R-compounds, with their super-stiff sidewalls, are well known for being very sensitive to wheel width, with some people gaining 15mm of tread with a mere change in wheel. Other tires, such as soft and tall street tires, are hardly affected at all, since the sidewall absorbs the difference.

Of the current Rs that people run, the Hoosiers and V710s are the most sensitive to wheel width, while Yokos are the least sensitive. V700s and Ecstas are in the middle.

In short: I agree with Ron when we're talking about street tires; I do not agree and have the evidence in my garage when it comes to Rs.

- Jtoby

ps. you get about one-third the tread deformation at the opposite end of the tire as you do at the ground; the belts do not like to twist, so they rotate across the entire wheel

 

[gbell]

If I decide to get a winter tire I will put summer tires on in the spring. I am debating whether to get that or summer tire now. I like the ablility to go in the snow if I want/have to, but is a winter going to do better whens it just wet out, or is it going to make a difference. I ask because it hardly get cold enough to snow here, but it rains a lot here. So most of my driving until summer will be when its wet.

 

[daren_p]

I guess your answer would also depend on what temps you normally see in the winter. Depending on how "agressive" your summer tire is (tread compountd), some of them can get dangerous when you get close to the freezing point & rain.

 

[Luke@tirerack]

ps. you get about one-third the tread deformation at the opposite end of the tire as you do at the ground; the belts do not like to twist, so they rotate across the entire wheel

hate to do this but, a moderator here asked me to chime in


while tires do deform under cornering forces it only happens where the tire meets the road and extends about 1/3 up the tire on a race tire and about 1/2 up the tire on a general use tire ....

while observing slip angle testing (which were so extreme the tires were smoking at times) there was no noticable or measurable deformation at the top of the tire even though it was extreme at the contact patch.

 

[jtmcinder]

What kind of tire was used in your tests? The video I saw used a steel-belted radial DOT-R and that's the key. (I can't be sure, but I think it was the old Goodyear DOT-R.) Nylon belts don't have anywhere near as much resistance to lateral deformation and, thus, would not produce the top-side deformation. Heavier steel belts, such as those inside a Kumho V700, don't want to twist in the plane of the belts, so these produce the top-side deformation.

More important, however, are the experiences of autocrossers that back this all up. You can set up the car to have 2-3mm of clearance between the tire and the knuckle, but still get serious rubbing during a run. Now, you might think that this was due to the wheel, instead of the tire, but we're talking SSR and BBS wheels, so I take these data as relevant. And, in one case, we're talking about the rear of a 2G, so it's very important for people here.

- Jtoby

 

[gbell]

OK well I decided to get 17x8 OZ Ultraleggras with a 40mm offset wrapped with 245/40/17 Kumho SPTs. I just ordered them from Tirerack today. I will post some pictures when I get them on.