LS-1 MAF translator vs ARC-2/ VPC

[cazual]

Originally posted by JJNovo


I installed 660s from RRE too. After some frustrations with a way too rich condition, I finally bumped up the base setting to 8 - -40% - 750. The high and mid trims finally came up from 81% where they were stuck for what seemed like forever. Now they're in the 90-100% range.

I should mention that the AFPR I currently have will not allow me to lower the base pressure below 44. I do have an Areomotive on order to lower the pressure. So we'll see what happens then.

All of the examples everyone is posting, shows how important it is to ensure that everything is within spec before modifications are applied. And then once something is added, you've got to be vigilant in making sure that everything gets re-adjusted back to spec.

Having said that, it is all relevent as to the level of supporting mods that are in place.

Thanks.
JJN

JJNovo, I found the same thing happinging to me to. I also just installed 660s from RRE and I had to turn the base fuel setting to position 8. I am still playing around with it, but I will be on the dyno on Friday to try and hit the sweet spot.

 

[TsiArt01]

04-15-2003 10:06 AM

quote:
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Originally posted by pilotleston


I didn´t understand.
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i was basicly saying does anyone know if he is making/has made a 1G pipe like that 2G one.. and if it is on the site.


__________________
-Dave

I don't know about clearence , but for that pipe there is no problem to bolt up to the trotle plate as far i know .

the reason i say that is that a lot of 1G guys get 2G elbos to install on their 1G's .

But what you could do is call them up and ask your self if it will fit in your car .

Sorry for speling , I was not born here .

 

[92TALONAWD]

Quick question for anybody running the translator on a larger turbo. I'm getting a 57 trim PTE turbo and I have a 3in maf and wanted to know if this will be enough. The turbo should be putting out upper 700's in CFM and I think the 3" is good for 800 CFM. I am going to run draw through, at least for now.

Thanks for the help and the space, Matt

 

[ATF 2GTalon]

Originally posted by cazual


JJNovo, I found the same thing happinging to me to. I also just installed 660s from RRE and I had to turn the base fuel setting to position 8. I am still playing around with it, but I will be on the dyno on Friday to try and hit the sweet spot.

This must be some screwed up coincidence. I've been running the 660's from RRE for 2 years now and I've had to lean them out to some ridiculous percentage as well. Right now my base is also at -40%, Idle at 0, Mid at -10%, and WOT at -15%. I'm also running a Green and thought there was no way I should be running this rich. Anybody else with 660s from RRE that are running richer than what they thought they would be?

 

[JJNovo]

Originally posted by ATF 2GTalon


This must be some screwed up coincidence. I've been running the 660's from RRE for 2 years now and I've had to lean them out to some ridiculous percentage as well. Right now my base is also at -40%, Idle at 0, Mid at -10%, and WOT at -15%. I'm also running a Green and thought there was no way I should be running this rich. Anybody else with 660s from RRE that are running richer than what they thought they would be?

Interesting. I attribute my super rich condition to not being able to control my fuel pressure (44 base). But say we actually got 720s instead of 660s. Can't complain about that deal. Except for perhaps champ_168, where it sounds like he might have got 550s.

But then again, he's got bigger cams, fmic, etc. Sounds like he's got everything opened up nice. So maybe it's just the increased (huge air flow) air volume? I'm guessing here.

But where are your guys' fuel pressures at? Just wondering because that would most likely explain things a bit better.

Anyway, once I get the new afpr installed and the base fuel pressure turned down, I'll let you all know what differences or changes I'll have to make. The regulator should probably get here within the next couple of weeks.

JJN

 

[larryd]

Does anyone have pictures of the 3.5" MAF on the UICP yet?

 

[ATF 2GTalon]

Originally posted by JJNovo

But where are your guys' fuel pressures at? Just wondering because that would most likely explain things a bit better.

I'm still running the stock FPR, stock fuel lines, with the upgraded Denso fuel pump.

 

[XTurboSpYderX]

Originally posted by larryd
Does anyone have pictures of the 3.5" MAF on the UICP yet?

bump

 

[JJNovo]

Originally posted by ATF 2GTalon


I'm still running the stock FPR, stock fuel lines, with the upgraded Denso fuel pump.

According to Tom's VFAQ on the SX AFPR Install page, www.vfaq.com/mods/FPR.html, the "2G Turbo FPRs are rated at 43.6psi at zero psi." (base) So what you are seeing makes sense. You are most likely in the same boat as I am. FP is a bit too high.

Thanks
JJN

 

[cazual]

Originally posted by JJNovo


But where are your guys' fuel pressures at? Just wondering because that would most likely explain things a bit better.

JJN

Well I think I fixed it this morning. I took the vacum line off at idle and my FP shout up to almost 50psi. I turn if back down to 38psi (stock) re-connected the vacum line and the car seems 10 times better.

 

[ATF 2GTalon]

Fuel Injectors are rated at a standard pressure and I think its something like 43psi or 45psi. So even on a 2G, the 660s should be close to 660s. I'm so tempted to try out some 550s, but right now I have the MAFT tuned pretty well, and I don't want to screw it up.

 

[JJNovo]

Excellent cazual!

A few pages back, JayHass posted a formula to help figure out close to functional injector sizing, taking fuel pressure into consideration.
That post can be found Here.

He also mentions the pressure, injectors are rated or referenced at.

 

[limitup]

I can't believe I actually read this entire post .

I'm not concerned with over-running my stock 2G MAS yet, and I definitely don't want to vent my BOV ... so mainly I'm interested in the GM MAF and MAFT because of the supposedly better throttle response and quicker spool-up (I'm running a green and would love to see it spool faster). Is anyone using the GM MAF system with a green or bigger turbo? If so, what kind of reduction in spooling did you honestly see? Like a few others have mentioned, I find it hard to believe the claims of 750 rpms etc. but I'm really curious. If it was anywhere near that type of difference I would get it in a heartbeat. Anyone have any real world numbers??

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Originally posted by L2RTSiAWD
Well your FP should rise 1:1 so an increase of base pressure will increase the pressure@WOT.

this is not completely true i dno't think.. if overrunning the stock FPR, it will start out at whatever and the pressrue it is supposed to be will rise with boost and once it rises passed the pressure it started at it goes from there according to the way it is suposed to be.. for example if you have 45PSI of pressure at idle than it will be at 45 PSI under 8 PSI of boost (45-37=8), above 8PSI it will rise accordingly..

 

[pimpngear]

Originally posted by HighPSI TSi Guy
this is not completely true i don't think.. if overrunning the stock FPR, it will start out at whatever the pressrue it is supposed to be and will rise with boost. Once it rises passed the pressure it started at, it goes from there according to the way it is suposed to be.. for example if you have 45PSI of pressure at idle than it will be at 45 PSI under 8 PSI of boost (45-37=8), above 8PSI it will rise accordingly..

Sorry Dave but I am just trying to make sence of this. What you are saying is that "once the stock FPR is being over-ran, it will LOWER f/p, then raise it accordingly to the amount of boost being applied". Call me stupid but I don't get it. I though it is exaxtly that....1:1. Checking the FPR with no vacume being applied will simulate WOT, witch means whatever the pressure is with the vacume is your new base, and the f/p will rises with boost equally. So lets say you are set at stock levels of 43 1/2 psi for us 2g guys(don't quote me on that #, and most likely lower for a 2g automatic car)and you have the boost set to 15lbs....at full boost(15lbs) your f/p will be 58.5psi. I don't see how you got the 45 minus 37 equals 8. I am not saying you are wrong by all means, I just don't understand and I would like to know if my way is wrong.

Sorry to get off of topic, but since i am here anyways.

I do plan on going with the 3" setup, just because i already have a 2" UICP and following JayHass's good advice I want to keep the step-up angle to a minimum(7deg. right?), wich if you didn't catch that, it also means I am gonna go with a blow thru(or whatever you call it setup) for the sole reason to open up the intake track. If I were coming from a stock standpoint, witch I basicly am close too, what all will I need to effectivly run a Maf. I think I will need everything that follows:

AFPR
Larger Injectors
Larger Fule Pump
Catch Can
And most importantly:
an EGt & A/F guage.

I though the whole point of this thing is suppose to be a cheap alternative. Just playing...I am well aware of what I got myself into.
My real question is can I get by for now without the pump and injectors, and just get everythinh else on the list? will I be able to effectivly run the Translator? Any Ideas, or thoughts about any of my post will be greatly appriciated(except comments on spelling) Thanks
-Robert

 

[nine5raptor]

buy a maf, maft and pocketlogger and you can go from there. ideally, you should have the pump too at least (afpr depends on which pump), the catchcan you don't really need. just pull the line off of the intake (you are putting a different intake in anyway), put a cheap filter on it (fram $2 fuel filter) and leave it open to atmo. injectors can come anytime, however they aren't necessary until you get a bigger turbo.

 

[BoostinAWD]

Whens the next batch coming out!!!
I ordered mine like 2 weeks ago. UGH

Sliding those 3 inch reducers to the maf was a pita!
I had to cut 4 slits in each one and use 3 butter knifes to wedge them on. I couldnt pull them back off if I tried.

 

[MaxBoost]

Here's a look at the blow through setup. This is not mine but it looks pretty good

 

[VRC Racing]

Originally posted by larryd
Does anyone have pictures of the 3.5" MAF on the UICP yet?

http://www.ddsm.org/vrcracing/images/2003_build/DCP_0681.JPG

 

[kutschca]

that's one hell of a setup there...my only question is will it cause problems mounting the sensor before the intercooler? I would think there would be some pretty hot air blowing through there. I'm not sure whether that would affect the sensor after time or not.

 

[ttawd3s]

The sensor can handle anything you can throw at it.. But it may need cleaned ( b/c oil ) about every filter change or filter wash.

GM sensor = NO JOKE !!

 

[Tallen]

i got a buncha water thru mine (dont ask) and after drying overnite it worked fine!

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Originally posted by pimpngear


Sorry Dave but I am just trying to make sence of this.

I'm not sure he is totally right (brain freeze on his example) but I beleive I know what he is trying to say... The FPR will add boost pressure to base pressure to cancel any change in pressure across the injector. But if it is being over run, it can no loner work in a 1:1 ratio, UNTIL you get over the overrun point. For example, if you are supposed to be set at 43 psi base, and you are getting 50 psi base, everything up to 7 psi boost will give you 50 psi fuel pressure. Unless consumption goes up enough to reduce the overrun point. Not sure if 7 psi will use enough fuel to do this. After that 7 psi, it will go up in a 1:1 ratio. Think of it like boost creep, since all this is is fuel pressure creep If you have boost creep to 18 psi, setting below that will always give you 18 psi. But if you set it at 20, its no longer an issue. This is the reason that overrunning the FPR screws with your idle and cruise tuning, but doesnt affect WOT tuning. At WOT, you are using most of the fuel being sent to the rail, less needs to be returned, and pressure is held where the regultor puts it. I hope that clears it up, if thats even what he was trying to say.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Originally posted by 95GSXracer


I'm not sure he is totally right (brain freeze on his example) but I beleive I know what he is trying to say... The FPR will add boost pressure to base pressure to cancel any change in pressure across the injector. But if it is being over run, it can no loner work in a 1:1 ratio, UNTIL you get over the overrun point. For example, if you are supposed to be set at 43 psi base, and you are getting 50 psi base, everything up to 7 psi boost will give you 50 psi fuel pressure. Unless consumption goes up enough to reduce the overrun point. Not sure if 7 psi will use enough fuel to do this. After that 7 psi, it will go up in a 1:1 ratio. Think of it like boost creep, since all this is is fuel pressure creep If you have boost creep to 18 psi, setting below that will always give you 18 psi. But if you set it at 20, its no longer an issue. This is the reason that overrunning the FPR screws with your idle and cruise tuning, but doesnt affect WOT tuning. At WOT, you are using most of the fuel being sent to the rail, less needs to be returned, and pressure is held where the regultor puts it. I hope that clears it up, if thats even what he was trying to say.

that is exactly what i was trying to say, thanks for clearing it up.. the stock FPR is being overrun, it doesn't know the REAL FP, it only knows what it think the FP is and is supposed to be. that is the point i was making.

 

[cazual]

Ok, I went to the dyno today and managed to get 301.9 whp and 291.6 torque out of the car with pump gas and at 18psi. The only problem that I had was that after 5500 rpm I was mad rich. I mean my a/f ratio was below 10. I did not have enough time to try and lean her out to see if my numbers would be better. I will go back this coming friday and see what I can do. I only used the translator to tune with, my safc was zero'd out.

I have a feeling that if I can get the a/f in the high 11 low 12s that I could gain a few more horses and some torque. We will see.