LS-1 MAF translator vs ARC-2/ VPC

[ttawd3s]

It has 4 swithes and 4 knobs, it mounts under the hood.

This pic is a translator for the GN, the DSM will be VERY simular I'm sure.

Knobs
Base fuel ( across the fuel curve )
idle fuel ( well.... at idle )
WOT 1 ( Fuel setting at full throttle acroos the band )
WOT 2 ( I'm not sure what they desided to use this knob for )

Switches
4 or 6 cyl
and I can remeber the rest...

 

[STARION]

so, wait a sec, I don't get one thing. Are we saying that the sensor gets mounted before the compressor inlet (like the factory mas), or that it CAN also be mounted as an IC pipe in a blow-through style (i.e. this air flow sensor can be used both ways)? OR, is there the mas style (in existence) and the blow through style (which is currently unavailable)?
somone help clear this up, because I really would want the blow through style, even if it means waiting, since it would mean more options for different types of intakes and of course bov venting.

thanks

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by larryd
Can anyone explain to me how the blow through ability would work? I understand this replaces the MAS with a larger less restrictive MAS that has tuning ability but how would you go about putting this on the UICP between the BOV and the TB for the better throttle response and ofcourse the ability to vent your BOV to the atmosphere

the reason a blow through hot wire meter is desirable, is because intake velocity is not lost as the meter reads air flow. no more missed counts, intake restriction is also reduced. i think this would be a great alternative to hacking a 2G meter. or trying to find a used VPC. using this meter as a global adjustment in conjunction with at Safc-2 sounds like an awesome setup. the GM 3.5" meter is HUGE im sure flow will be comparable to a vpc setup. i would definitely buy one if i did not have a vpc already.

As stated above going from a restrictive 1G/2G meter to a VPC made a very noticeable difference in spoolup im sure with a 3.5" GM meter should offer similar performance for a much lower purchase price. i still think a load/ temperature based system is better for tuning but this system seems pretty nice.

honesty i don't see 4 global setting being nearly specific enough for our needs. an afc would definitely be needed for more specific fuel adjustments. this will just allow for better spoolup and more accurate metering. i definitely would not use this without a afc/afr..ect

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by DSMraver
.

Larry: they're working on making a custom UIC pipe to mount the MAS as part of the pipe assembly.

i would like to see how this works. Blow threw setups in other applications have not been desirable in the past. Draw through setups offer more progressive metering then a (all at once) or blow through setup.

Maybe im reading this wrong. are you saying the meter will be placed after the turbo and intercooler?

 

[larryd]

the meter will be placed between the BOV and the throttle body.

 

[n2o4fun]

jdmawd your intelligence amazes me.
Please do more research on Hotwire vs Pressure/ temp metering, and blow through vs draw through positioning of the sensor, before posting information.

David

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by n2o4fun
jdmawd your intelligence amazes me.
Please do more research on Hotwire vs Pressure/ temp metering, and blow through vs draw through positioning of the sensor, before posting information.

David

i have experience with each thanks

Blow through is definitely a better high boost track application. but on a street car I don't think. Sorry most don't drive WOT at high boost level from the moment we start or cars until we shut it down.

 

[n2o4fun]

Not much I take it as your statements about both subjects are wrong. Thank you! And have a nice day.

Your logic is ass backwards with regard to which works where. More research is in order I think.

 

[nine5raptor]

a couple of questions about the blowthrough:

since the sensor will be reading actual intake temp at the tb, are our ecu's programmed to deal with temps that high? do we have a max value in there, say 130deg or so (since the stock one reads at the filter vs after compressing where temps may be 200-250)

also the ecu will see "barometric pressures" of 30+ psi over absolute vs somewhere around 14 depending on where you live. can our ecus compensate for that?

intially, you would have to tune it richer to compensate for these as the ecu would see hotter and less dense air, but the q is can our ecu's even deal with this?

 

[ttawd3s]

I'm sure if/when the blow though design is finished it will take care of all those problems ( if they are a concern ). But that is a good question.. I don't care about open venting, so I'll glady take the pull though...

 

[nine5raptor]

I would just like to clean up my engine bay a little by removing some of the intake piping. Plus any Initial D fan wants the badass open turbo inlet!

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by n2o4fun
Not much I take it as your statements about both subjects are wrong. Thank you! And have a nice day.

Your logic is ass backwards with regard to which works where. More research is in order I think.

Well, lets allow a couple systems to hit the street and see how it works out. Since I have used a hot wire systems in both configurations on a somewhat high HP application 405 rwhp in a high compression supercharged domestic. I can tell you (from experience) that a blow though setup is not idea for a street application. a street car is a very temperamental animal.

 

[Ramchargers]

Inlet air temp and baro are used by the stock computer to calculate mass air when used with a Karmen type sensor which just counts air swirls. When we use a real mass air sensor we send a fixed signal to those items since the computer no longer needs them and we want to make it stable. You guys are thinking to hard this is very simple and not complicted. The ECU is happy and the car runs fine. After the original test I am not sure how much improvment there will be real world with blow through but once it warms up a little around here I will run it back to back on my car at the track to see. For now the pipes are being designed for blow through. The existing 1G inlet pipes already work fine for either sensor on a draw through. The 3" sensor will fit on the stock flexy air tube with a K&N cone filter. For you guys that are concerned with BOV noise it is very noticeable even with the draw through and this new setup.
Mike

 

[larryd]

Mike.

So let me get this straight. Is it going to be the same unit used for a blow through as a draw through or is it going to be a different unit? Have you tested it as a blow through yet?

 

[gotwood?]

i don't understand.... so this will allow you to vent to the atmosphere or not? i keep hearing all these words, but understand them, i do not.

 

[Ramchargers]

First of all the same sensor and the same box can be used as a draw through or as a blow through with no changes. Have we mounted one on a DSM as a blow through, no. Have we used the same box (with a different calibration for the car) and sensor on a Buick Turbo as a draw through or a blow through yes. The only thing that happens is a small tuning adjustment that is easily in the range of adjustment of the box. This is proven technology that works over and over again on many different cars. Mount the sensor somwhere between the BOV and the throttle body after the intercooler, get your scan tool of choice out and tune the car, you are done. It will run pretty close to good with the "draw through" tune up. When used as a blow through the BOV can be vented anywhere. When used as a draw through the BOV MUST be vented betwwen the MAF and the TB since this is now "metered air" that has been measured and counted by the ECM. If you still don't get it wait until I can build a FAQ page with pictures which will happen in a few weeks once we get caught up with all the orders we already have.
Mike Licht

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by Ramchargers
First of all the same sensor and the same box can be used as a draw through or as a blow through with no changes. Have we mounted one on a DSM as a blow through, no. Have we used the same box (with a different calibration for the car) and sensor on a Buick Turbo as a draw through or a blow through yes. The only thing that happens is a small tuning adjustment that is easily in the range of adjustment of the box. This is proven technology that works over and over again on many different cars. Mount the sensor somwhere between the BOV and the throttle body after the intercooler, get your scan tool of choice out and tune the car, you are done. It will run pretty close to good with the "draw through" tune up. When used as a blow through the BOV can be vented anywhere. When used as a draw through the BOV MUST be vented betwwen the MAF and the TB since this is now "metered air" that has been measured and counted by the ECM. If you still don't get it wait until I can build a FAQ page with pictures which will happen in a few weeks once we get caught up with all the orders we already have.
Mike Licht

in a dsm application, depending on intercooler pipe routing stye. in a blow through setup. could put the meter directly after a sharp 90* bend if you have a FMIC this might not be a problem. has this required any sample tube adjustment in other similar applications? it took us some time to find the best pick up angle to get the car to idle properly on the mustang. where the meter was placed after a sharp bend coming from the intercooler? will this setup allow for rotation of the meter to find the best sample tube angle?

 

[Ramchargers]

OK now I understaand your post from before. You were using a Ford style meter. The function is COMPLETELY different than the GM meter. There is no sample tube and index is not a problem at all. They do not suffer from those problems like the Ford units do.
Mike

 

[jdmawd]

ok i see now, thanks for clearing that up

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by Ramchargers
First of all the same sensor and the same box can be used as a draw through or as a blow through with no changes. Have we mounted one on a DSM as a blow through, no. Have we used the same box (with a different calibration for the car) and sensor on a Buick Turbo as a draw through or a blow through yes. The only thing that happens is a small tuning adjustment that is easily in the range of adjustment of the box. This is proven technology that works over and over again on many different cars. Mount the sensor somwhere between the BOV and the throttle body after the intercooler, get your scan tool of choice out and tune the car, you are done. It will run pretty close to good with the "draw through" tune up. When used as a blow through the BOV can be vented anywhere. When used as a draw through the BOV MUST be vented betwwen the MAF and the TB since this is now "metered air" that has been measured and counted by the ECM. If you still don't get it wait until I can build a FAQ page with pictures which will happen in a few weeks once we get caught up with all the orders we already have.
Mike Licht

Mike..

thanks for the information.. I look forward to picking one of these up once I get my car back up and running

 

[libbert2]

does aneyone know the part numbers for these parts for our cars (dsm) thanks curt

 

[webbdog]

Will the new MAS be able to handle the water vapor that gets pushed back through it when the BOv opens? Or, if running water injection, does it have to be put in the stock location? I'm still going to get it either way, it'd just be nice to know where I can plan to put it.

 

[Enigma_Man]

Okay, so correct me if i'm wrong... But to sum up, this is what's coming out:

Mass airflow sensor that can take the heat and pressure of being put after the turbo. This would allow BOVs to be vented to atmosphere to make happy sounds, and would provide the same benefits of the VPC without the problems of the VPC (problems idling, etc). It can be put in the stock location, before the turbo though. It's cheap, and there's basiclly no way our cars will max this thing out. The device includes tuning similar to that of a VPC, with global adjustments only, so AFC/SAFCs are still useful, but not always necessary.

Wow... impressive. I can't wait to get my hands on one. Something I can actually afford.

About the water injection. I imagine that if you put this device somewhere about where the stock UIC is, just after the BOV, could you not still inject water in after the MAF?

-Jesse

 

[Ramchargers]

In a nutshell, yes, you got it, that is what it is / does. As far as water injector goes in the course of normal driving a smal amount of water gets sucked throught the sensor so it should not be a problem, now if you spary water directly on it there WILL be a problem but the mist from the BOV vent should be fine.
Mike Licht

 

[1 fast POS]

Mike, you said that the controls are under the hood right? Why? Why not route into the vehicle? Can I modify it to be in the dash?