Jet Hot Coated Turbo Components [Merged 4-7]

[Cesar]

Originally posted by i550
This coating is supposed to help retain heat not dissipate it.


While it's possible to damage the coating by exceeding the temperature rating how could you possibly damage the metal? An exhaust component is designed for the high temps and the coating doesn't alter the component.

I don't know about that. Pistons that are coated run cooler because they do not absorb as much heat, therefore they can run tighter clearences because they don't expand as much. When coating manifolds for example, the heat is kept on the inside since that's where all the hot gasses are, as opposed to dissipating heat to the engine bay. therefore gases will flow faster, and engine bay temps are kept lower. After all we are talking about ceramic coatings right? have you ever tried heating somthing ceramic as opposed to heating a metal to see what cools faster?

when running excessively lean for example do pistons not melt? I guess a manifold melting is an extreme example, but I was never suggesting that.
He simply asked what would happen if you surpassed the temperature where the thermal barrier no longer provided protection to the metal, and metals do melt after a specific temperature.

places in canada:
http://www.fireballcoatings.com/

call mississauga engines and they will refer you to a place in brampton.

 

[DSMJim]

Originally posted by Cesar
places in canada:
http://www.fireballcoatings.com/

call mississauga engines and they will refer you to a place in brampton.

The place in Brampton did my stuff, GP Engineering. It's nice silver to start but fades over time. Here is what mine looks like now. Apparently you can use aluminum polish to bring it back up but why?

I had my manifold and turbo done. My downpipe is VHT silver caliper paint.

 

[i550]

Cesar,

There are several different types of coatings but they basically break down into two classes, barriers and dispirsants.

Exhaust components are coated with thermal barriers to retain heat as much as possible. This gives you the better gas velocity.

Piston tops are coated with thermal dispirsants to keep the piston from absorbing excessive amounts of heat from the combustion process.

Now running lean and melting aluminum pistons is completely different than melting cast iron, mild steel, or stainless steel exhaust components. You can get hot enough to get scale flaking on mild steel tubing but the engine would pop long before you could damage any of the other materials.

 

[GSXpower]

I was just doing some thinking, and there has to be a better way to keep the compressor housing cooler on a turbo. What if you extended the shaft so you could sandwitch a phenolic spacer inbetween the compressor housing, and exhaust housing. That would cut down on the heat transfer from the exhaust side. Also if you were to jet-hot coat the exhaust side both inside and out that would increase your velocity, and reduce heat transfer. Have you guys heard of any of these methods being attempted or any other ideas?

 

[silverbulletAWD]

Jet Hot coatings may be an option and I know some are doing it. Typical ceramic coatings won't hold up to the heat though. I cant remember off the top of my head but I think the melting point of ceramic coatings is around either 1200° or 1300°F. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

As for the phenolic spacer, check out this link. http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=191761

I told them exactly what I would tell you.

Andy

 

[MNGSX]

There is still some heat transfer between the turbine wheel and exhaust wheel via the shaft...

Just get some thermal wrap... the good stuff for the hot side and downpipe then reuse/fabricate heat sheilds.

 

[jott5555]

they make a ceramic coating that will hold up to 2000 deg, iim having my intake, exh manis. exh houseing and o2 done in it. good by nazty heat shield

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

No way you could use a phenolic spacer. Wheel wouldn't fit right, etc. Honestly, the comp housing generates plenty of heta on its own. I doubt you could cool it down significantly.

 

[MNGSX]

Originally posted by jott5555
they make a ceramic coating that will hold up to 2000 deg, iim having my intake, exh manis. exh houseing and o2 done in it. good by nazty heat shield

Just because it can withstand 2000 degrees does'nt mean it is great and keeping the heat in.

Look at an attic or freezer panel...

The coating will help. If you insulate it with cellular insulation - racing thermal blankets then cap it off with a heat sheild... Make your own from stainless sheet if you hate the stock one... This will keep underhood temps down by keeping the heat in the exhaust system.

 

[silverbulletAWD]

MNGSX, do you know for sure what kind of strip they use in those exhaust wrap kits? I just found some ceramic fiber strips in McMaster Carr today and it sounded pretty good so I ordered some to check it out. Catalog said its good for up to 2300°F and you can get it in 1/32", 1/16", and 1/8" thickness by 1",2" & 3" widths. The best thing is it's WAY cheaper than ordering from Summit or Jeg's.

 

[MNGSX]

It really needs to only have two attributes..

1. Have air pockets
2. Withstand contact with heat.

Sounds like I have a new source for wrap!

I'd still overwrap that with the sheeting that looks like foil and seal it off with the high temp sealant. This keeps moisture out of the air pockets of the insulation and increases the insulation level alot. Think like how a house is insulated in layers... The cellulose does'nt get rained on does it..

You ceramic naysayers.... I bet I can touch the outside of my inulation layers and heatsheild.... I'll do it if you touch that bare ceramic...

 

[-red97rum-]

I've heard nothing but great things about swaintech...

Check it out.

Quote from their site:

"Swain Tech Header Coating is different than All the other header coatings. It is applied as SOLID Ceramic Layers, not hi-temp paint. It is a true .015 thick Thermal Barrier.
Other header coatings are .002 thick and meant for appearance and corrosion resistance. Swain Coating is Functional not Cosmetic.<--- I like that part!

http://swaintech.com/header.html

Peace,

Dustin

 

[silverbulletAWD]

Just an update. I recieved the ceramic fiber strips and they are not much like the woven stuff you'd buy from Summit or Jegs but I think this will work just fine if not better. One of the uses it's recommended for in the catalog is lining furnaces. Should work for us.

 

[GSXpower]

hey where did you order the ceramic strips from? I am thinking about getting some. So do you just wrap it around and clamp it on, or find a way to hook it together? They want too much for that turbo wrap stuff.

 

[silverbulletAWD]

McMaster Carr. If your not familiar, it's a pretty large scale industrial supply catalog. They've got all kinds of good stuff. I wrote all the pt#'s down the other day so I could just list them for you guy's but I forgot the phone # now. Let me get the # tomorrow then I'll get you guy's a list. Maybe it will save someone a little time.

Andy

 

[Chuck_3]

Jet Hot

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

McMaster Carr. If your not familiar, it's a pretty large scale industrial supply catalog. They've got all kinds of good stuff. I wrote all the pt#'s down the other day so I could just list them for you guy's but I forgot the phone # now. Let me get the # tomorrow then I'll get you guy's a list. Maybe it will save someone a little time.

Andy

Please do, I am very interested!!

 

[silverbulletAWD]

I'm sorry guys, I feel like a total ass. My life just recently switched from a 200mph roller coaster to 300mph, and I totally forgot to get back w/ the info. So here it is:

www.mcmaster.com

Just do a search for "Ceramic Fiber Strips", then look like three results down for that exact phrase and you'll see exactly what I bought. If anyone tries it, make sure you let us know how it works. Looks like my car won't be going any time soon due to other issues.

Andy

 

[Boost Addict]

If I were ever to ceramic coat anything, it would probably be with Jet Hot. I was able to touch the headers of 454 that had been running for awhile without burning the crap outta my hand. This stuff really doesn't allow the metal to soake up heat. I would definatly not thermal wrap anything hot... all that stuff does is trap heat in that location. Thermal wrapping the tubine housing will probably cause the center cartrege to overheat.

 

[jott5555]

the place here locally i go through has a coating that is able to prtotect up to 2000 deg, when i ran my can i could put my hand on the exh mani and not burn myself..i mean ya it was hot but it was a hell of a lot cooler than from the factory.

 

[tanner261]

http://www.techlinecoatings.com/Exhaust.htm

I had the Black Satin (BHK) done on my manifold, turbine housing, and O2 housing. Underhood temps went down and I can put my hand next to the turbine housing after a hard run. The coating has held up very well with no signs of flaking off.

Now techline has a new coating called Turbo X, possibly better than the BHK?

For the best heat retention, I'd coat the parts and use thermal wrap. The coating will prevent rust and retain heat, and the wrap will help retain what heat the coating can't. I see no harm in using both.

 

[silverbulletAWD]

I would definatly not thermal wrap anything hot... all that stuff does is trap heat in that location. Thermal wrapping the tubine housing will probably cause the center cartrege to overheat.

So....... Well, what would you thermo wrap then? Something cold? Yes your right, all that stuff does is trap heat in its location. That's what it's designed to do. The "big picture" analogy I use is, the hotter you keep the hot side and the colder you keep the cold side the better off you are. Dont worry about the center section too much either, I haven't heard of one melting yet.

Oh yeah, I'm going to try the McMaster wrap on my Typhoon's downpipe instead. My silver car wont be running for a while and I figure if it works on the Typhoons cluster-####ed mess then it will definately work on our DSM's

 

[Boost Addict]

The "big picture" analogy I use is, the hotter you keep the hot side and the colder you keep the cold side the better off you are

Well the "big problem" with the "big picture" is that the really really hot side is kinda connected to the cold side. I also don't recall saying the bearing will melt, but higher than normal temps will certainly shorten the life of a turbo.

 

[silverbulletAWD]

The only reason why I used "big picture" in between the words "the" and "analogy" was to attempt to relay that obviously this is a basic concept given the undeniable connection between the exh. housing and the CHRA among several other inherent issues.

I dont recall saying anything about melting bearings either.

Your right, containing some of this heat could decrease the life of a turbo substantially. But I personally dont ever plan on running my race car 100,000 miles on a setup or even 10,000 for that matter. I'll take the heat.

 

[GSXpower]

I just got a price estimate from Jet-Hot for the coating of our exhaust manifold with their original sterling finish. It was around $90. I am not sure if that is inside and out, or just outside. Anyway, I am assuming that if you want your turbine housing coated as well then you would have to take the turbo in half before you send it, otherwise who knows what they would do to it. They also bead blast it so that probably isn't too good for bearings. I am thinking that they would probably want $100 to coat the turbine housing. I say coat the manifold and turbo, and wrap the downpipe. Also try to make usage of your stock heat shields even though they aren't pretty. Performance before looks right guys?