Is a 16g really what I want...?

[drooseph]

I recently accquired a real mitsu small 16g alon with an upgrade side mount and all piping. I want to run stock boost, I was getting 16 psi with my t25 and bcs with no controller, and i don't want to run this setup if its not really worth it. my question is, is a 16g really worth the lag if only running stock boost and no tuning? And I do NOT want to run a FMIC.

 

[juanpac0]

The 16g flows a lot more than a T25, but its not a big enough difference to where @ 15psi the T25 would flow more than the 16g, if you look at the compressor maps for the turbos all of the 16gs are more efficient @ 15psi than the T25 @ 15psi where it's starting to blow hot air because it's a hairdrying turd of a turbo choice for a DSM.

 

[TSI_AWD_FTW]

I would just use the 16g, there efficient.

 

[dsm-onster]

You will make more power at lower boost with the small 16g vs. the t25. We did with my brothers 2g. Even at 12psi between the two of them. We were closer to the limit of the stock fuel injectors which means more airflow (plus it did log more hertz as well). The t25 doesn't even push the stock injectors to their limit. Not that you want to run them to their limit all day every day, but fact of the matter with his small fmic setup and a maft, he was never able to even get to 70%IDC with the t2-small (from my experience that's about 210-230whp with 450cc injectors).

The t25 would cause the motor to knock all over the rpm range with pump gas after 13psi. We we able to lower the boost with the small 16g (better for pump gas), still net more flow, while leaning it out more. AND THEN we found out that it wasn't his setup that was knock happy. We found out that we could turn up the wick to about 15psi with the s16g and not get any knock right at the limits of the stock injectors. Pulled so well up top that you could care less about getting to 15psi at 2900rpms vs. 1900rpms . If one already has the small 16g and is that concerned about spool get a used 6cm^2 housing from a 14b for next to nothing. You're still FAR better off for how much you can get out of the setup with stock fuel and pumpgas with it.

The small 16g is what the dsm should have come from the factory with anyhow. It is actually listed as a factory upgrade to the Eclipse.

 

[drooseph]

on my old motor I ran 21psi with nothing but intake and turboback. i blew the motor after about 4k miles on the t25. I dont understand how 17psi from a 16g is any different from a t25. 17psi is 17psi. I drove my friends 2g gsx with a 20g and hated it but drove a 1g tsi with a 16g and loved it. can i just port my t25. I also have a mint 13g and matching mani

 

[gusu]

on my old motor I ran 21psi with nothing but intake and turboback. i blew the motor after about 4k miles on the t25. I dont understand how 17psi from a 16g is any different from a t25. 17psi is 17psi. I drove my friends 2g gsx with a 20g and hated it but drove a 1g tsi with a 16g and loved it. can i just port my t25. I also have a mint 13g and matching mani

The 16g at 17 psi vs the t-25 flows much cooler air. The air is less resricted by the turbo compressing it than the t-25 that the oxygen molecules are much more abundant. The air entering the motor thus has more oxygen and cool air to reduce chance of knock or detonation, as well as producing more power than the t-25 would. Simple science...


It sounds like on your old build you ran your injectors passed what they are rated for and washed down your cylinder walls and spun a rod bearing or possibly didn't log anything and didn't check for signs of knock resulting in detonation. I'm not saying this to be a dick, but shit man you should really read the stuff posted here. Justin goes over this just about EVERY day. The duty cycle of your injectors is just as important to know as knowing how much knock you have (if any).

I honestly don't want you to blow another motor. Do it right this time!

 

[knochgoon24]

My small 16g is loads of fun. Much better than the T-25.

It should have come stock on the 2g. Or at least a 14b.

 

[99GSXblack]

on my old motor I ran 21psi with nothing but intake and turboback. i blew the motor after about 4k miles on the t25. I dont understand how 17psi from a 16g is any different from a t25. 17psi is 17psi. I drove my friends 2g gsx with a 20g and hated it but drove a 1g tsi with a 16g and loved it. can i just port my t25. I also have a mint 13g and matching mani

Running 21 psi on a t25 is a big no, no from my understanding. You're far out of the turbo's efficiency at that point. 17 psi is 17 psi sure but the lbs/min airflow is going to be different and that's what actually matters unless I'm horribly confused. Sorry man but you're just going to be blowing more stuff up thinking like you are.

 

[knochgoon24]

I spent 5 min typing, then realized that I talked way too much about this before.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...not-directly-relative-cylinder-pressures.html

This will explain why 17psi on one turbo isn't equal to 17psi on another turbo.

 

[dsm-onster]

The 16g at 17 psi vs the t-25 flows much cooler air. The air is less resricted by the turbo compressing it than the t-25 that the oxygen molecules are much more abundant. The air entering the motor thus has more oxygen and cool air to reduce chance of knock or detonation, as well as producing more power than the t-25 would. Simple science...


It sounds like on your old build you ran your injectors passed what they are rated for and washed down your cylinder walls and spun a rod bearing or possibly didn't log anything and didn't check for signs of knock resulting in detonation. I'm not saying this to be a dick, but shit man you should really read the stuff posted here. Justin goes over this just about EVERY day. The duty cycle of your injectors is just as important to know as knowing how much knock you have (if any).

I honestly don't want you to blow another motor. Do it right this time!

Actually the greatly oversimplified version of the thread Wes linked above: the inefficiency of the turbo is very minor until the intercooler heatsoaks. The major difference in flow at this boost level with these two turbos comes from the fact that the larger turbine housing and turbine wheel of the 16g let alot more massflow out of the motor, thus driving total volumetric efficiency way up. There is less back pressure in the exhaust manifold to work against the incoming aircharge.

But, you are right to argue that 17psi is NOT 17psi when the turbo is different.