Im thinking Cams, but cant decide....

[adidalax]

Just wanted to throw this out there and see what you all think...

I wrecked my baby and am about to get a new one...here are the list of mods that the new car has....

Frank Stage 3 Turbo
3" Thermal Turbo-back
Walbro 255
680cc Injectors
Apex'i FMIC
2.5" Hard IC piping
3" Hard intake pipe to turbo
S-AFC
AVC-R
Water Injection that has yet to be installed

So here is what Im thinking...Sell the SAFC and AVCR, put my Profec B Spec II in there and get DSMLink...Install the Water Injection, but after that, Im not sure what to really do next. I was thinking Cams, but I dont know too much about them and am not too sure what to look for. I was also thinking about doing a blow-thru MAFT setup, but like I said, I cant really decide.....What do you all think my next mod should be??

BTW - I am putting my TRE tranny w/ LSD from my old car into the new one...

 

[canucatchdis]

I think that would be a decent addition to your setup. Have you considerd a 3" gm mass air flow?

 

[adidalax]

Have you considerd a 3" gm mass air flow?

...I was also thinking about doing a blow-thru MAFT setup, but like I said, I cant really decide...

Yes...

Whats the deal with Cams -- I know everyone usually goes with the HKS but Im not sure what combo I would need. 272/264 ? Something like that.....?

 

[CanadianTSi]

Most people with 16g sized turbo's get the 264/272 combo, or you could look into the FP1's or 2's.

 

[BrownBa14]

FFWD came out with a nice set.

 

[canucatchdis]

Yes...

Whats the deal with Cams -- I know everyone usually goes with the HKS but Im not sure what combo I would need. 272/264 ? Something like that.....?

My mistake, sorry. I just didnt see that earlier I guess.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

I think that would be a decent addition to your setup. Have you considerd a 3" gm mass air flow?

A 3" GM MAS isn't gonna do anything for him that a simple 2G MAS can't do, except let him vent.

 

[adidalax]

A 3" GM MAS isn't gonna do anything for him that a simple 2G MAS can't do, except let him vent.

Well it does give you a bit more airflow, though, doesnt it? Cant hurt, at least....

Also, I just got myself a 1G intake mani and throttle body off ebay for $11

 

[DSMNightmare]

Just wanted to throw this out there and see what you all think...

I wrecked my baby and am about to get a new one...here are the list of mods that the new car has....

Frank Stage 3 Turbo
3" Thermal Turbo-back
Walbro 255
680cc Injectors
Apex'i FMIC
2.5" Hard IC piping
3" Hard intake pipe to turbo
S-AFC
AVC-R
Water Injection that has yet to be installed

So here is what Im thinking...Sell the SAFC and AVCR, put my Profec B Spec II in there and get DSMLink...Install the Water Injection, but after that, Im not sure what to really do next. I was thinking Cams, but I dont know too much about them and am not too sure what to look for. I was also thinking about doing a blow-thru MAFT setup, but like I said, I cant really decide.....What do you all think my next mod should be??

BTW - I am putting my TRE tranny w/ LSD from my old car into the new one...

Cams are a nice addition to just about any setup but ask yourself this... Do you want to spend 400-600 dollars on that when you should think about traction at this point. Are you going for good track times or just all around power? If you don't go to the track much then sure go for the cams but if your looking for better track times I would also consider spending that money on anything that can help your traction at this point. With the 20G I saw ~30 or so hp gain from the cams and sick top end gains. Many folks say to go 272/272 but if you don't want the lopey cam then just do the split. A lot of people say you can live with the lope. It's really up to you.

Good luck

 

[adidalax]

Cams are a nice addition to just about any setup but ask yourself this... Do you want to spend 400-600 dollars on that when you should think about traction at this point. Are you going for good track times or just all around power? If you don't go to the track much then sure go for the cams but if your looking for better track times I would also consider spending that money on anything that can help your traction at this point. With the 20G I saw ~30 or so hp gain from the cams and sick top end gains. Many folks say to go 272/272 but if you don't want the lopey cam then just do the split. A lot of people say you can live with the lope. It's really up to you.

Good luck

Personally, I kinda like lope My dad brought me up on lopey Chevy Bigblocks...

As for traction - I have an LSD:

BTW - I am putting my TRE tranny w/ LSD from my old car into the new one...

 

[sickgsx-316]

Well it does give you a bit more airflow, though, doesnt it? Cant hurt, at least....

Also, I just got myself a 1G intake mani and throttle body off ebay for $11

2G MAS is good for 400hp.

FFWDs cams are nice but are regrinds. I personally wouldnt spend money on reground cams. Think about it...taking a piece of metal, removing a bunch of material in some spots and adding some to others, then spinning the crap out of them? Would rather pay the extra for new billett cores. I will be camming my setup at somepoint in the near future, I am trying to decide between the crower Stage 2 and Stage 3's. Anyone know where I can find a dyno chart for the stage 2's?

 

[adidalax]

2G MAS is good for 400hp.

FFWDs cams are nice but are regrinds. I personally wouldnt spend money on reground cams. Think about it...taking a piece of metal, removing a bunch of material in some spots and adding some to others, then spinning the crap out of them? Would rather pay the extra for new billett cores. I will be camming my setup at somepoint in the near future, I am trying to decide between the crower Stage 2 and Stage 3's. Anyone know where I can find a dyno chart for the stage 2's?

Awesome....guess I wont be getting a MAFT setup for a while then.

Regrinds scare me as well.....so if I do eventually get cams, i will probably just go with the HKS since they are tried, true, and proven. When you guys say lopey, how lopey is it?? Is it a rough idle? or what??

Also - how much power (with good tuning) do you think I will be able to lay down with this current setup on the new car plus the DSMLink, LSD, and 1G intake mani and TB??

 

[Black95TSIawd]

dont bother with that 1g intake mani. It wont do you any good due to the small intake track on the 2g head. Even if you port match the head to a 1g mani, you could be hindering the design of the head and lose power. As for the throttle body, go ahead and put that one on, but dont forget to port the intake on your 2g intake mani to match it. It is a good 8mm bigger then the stock 2g t-body. Also, you should look into the Forced Performance cams. They drop right in and are already drilled so just plug and play. A set of FP2's would do you lovely.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Well it does give you a bit more airflow, though, doesnt it? Cant hurt, at least....

Not if the turbo doesn't flow the air.

 

[DSMNightmare]

Awesome....guess I wont be getting a MAFT setup for a while then.

Regrinds scare me as well.....so if I do eventually get cams, i will probably just go with the HKS since they are tried, true, and proven. When you guys say lopey, how lopey is it?? Is it a rough idle? or what??

Also - how much power (with good tuning) do you think I will be able to lay down with this current setup on the new car plus the DSMLink, LSD, and 1G intake mani and TB??

I'm a big fan of numbers so here it goes...

1. DSMLink. Good for racing and pretty much plug and play. I don't know what a frank stage 3 turbo is but I do know that with just a 20G and cams I was able to put down 335hp@ 20 psi on pump gas. With the link you might be able to mess with the timing a bit more and squeeze out some more hp with tuning. I did mine with an AFCII which does me just fine. I have a DSMlink sitting on the shelf at home waiting to go in but have not had the time or eprom to put it in.

2. 1G intake. While you will see gains with a 1G intake and TB you have to go through a PIA to make it work. Unless the runners are matched to the 1G intake your going to have flow issues. Your best bet if you can afford it is to go with either a 1G head swap or the easier option is to go with a Magnus Sheet Metal intake that is flanged for a 2G. I dropped .2-.3 off my pump gas time just by bolting this thing on. That's not even tuning it but literally putting it on and going to the track. The top end gains for the magnus manifold are sick. The car can go from 60-150 in no time and it just keeps pulling HARD. Well worth the money but to see similar gains you might need cams to go with it.

Keep in mind with both cams and sheet metal intakes. Some people (myself included) have seen a reduction is spool response due to adding cams and/or a sheet metal intake. I lost about 300 rpm on spool but the mph gain more than made up for it. I'll deal with a little later spool if the car pulls the entire run. Now I just need to get off my ass and dyno tune with the manifold and take it to the track with race gas and see what it can really do

 

[adidalax]

.....I don't know what a frank stage 3 turbo is....

Frank stage 3 = Frankenstien Stage 3:

Mitsubishi TD05H 7CM turbine housing with TD06 turbine wheel, Mitsubishi TD06 20G style compressor housing with 3" inlet, with 690CFM Garrett 54 trim compressor wheel.

 

[DSMNightmare]

Frank stage 3 = Frankenstien Stage 3:

Mitsubishi TD05H 7CM turbine housing with TD06 turbine wheel, Mitsubishi TD06 20G style compressor housing with 3" inlet, with 690CFM Garrett 54 trim compressor wheel.

Wow, I always thought it was nuts trying to cram a 50 trim wheel into a 20G housing. I can't imagine a 54 trim.

 

[4kinboost]

Here's a link that will help you decide on cams,,,

http://www.automotosports.com/cam_test.asp



Here's some turbo #'s

http://devnulled.com/content/2004/01/flow-and-hp-ratings-for-popular-dsm-turbos/

http://www.jblmk3.com/id134.htm

I love charts and facts (used to be a stockbroker/technical analyst... When i see hp figures on dyno charts i buy parts and slap'em in... I'm going for the 272/272 combo with the magnus intake... The set-up is proven time and time again to go 120+ mph in the 1/4 mile....

I think my turbo should be good for an easy 125 on big boost. I read through forums and websites for 2 weeks before i made my decision. I'm running dsmlink v2 now and i will go to blowthrough as well for a few different reasons. Besides being a fan of venting, I think blow-through allows more flow to a 3" turbo inlet-- epecially with a ram-air set-up... But more importantly I think it helps you get past some of the 'bugs' that you may sometimes develop in your intake system--like leaky bov's and slight boost leaks, etc,etc...

Just my own opinion, some guys say the car runs like crap with maft in part throttle situations, it's worth the venting to me--

 

[Waredtalontsi]

How come every time cams get mentioned people always state that HKS 272 are very lopey and have idle problems? I have heard acouple of different cars including my own car with these cams, and guess what no idle problems and not as lopey as people make them sound.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Wow, I always thought it was nuts trying to cram a 50 trim wheel into a 20G housing. I can't imagine a 54 trim.

50 trim has a 3.000" exducer while a 54 trim only has a 2.950" exducer. 50 trim is physically larger wheel.

 

[Illicit TSi]

I have 272's and they arent lopey or anything.. I like them and they work rather well for what I have and what i am going for.I actually was old by Road race to keep the HKS 272's and NOT get any other brand because there was a problem with the others and HKS was the FIRST company to come out with them(272's)for our car.My thoughts is someone isnt timing thier car right if they are getting lopey HKS 272's.. Thats altelast how it comes across.

 

[DSMNightmare]

"Lopey" is a matter of opinion. Some people think that when the car gets under 1000K rpm that there is a Lope to the feel of the car. I never said there was ANY idle problems with the cams. "Lope" is a common thing that happens with larger cams and it has nothing to do with poor timing. Some people never notice this at all and some never notice it because they never drop below 1000K at idle. I've heard cars with 272/272 that have had lope and I've heard cars that do not. It's not really a big deal but it's kind of like fuel pump whine. You need to be prepared for the possiblility that it can happen.

HKS used to be the end game of cam selection but there are companies out there such as Comp cams that are producing similar results for less money. Personally I'll stick with HKS because of thier time and time again proven cams but I'm sure over time Comp is going to make thier name in the Cam market for DSMs.

 

[Illicit TSi]

"Lopey" is a matter of opinion. Some people think that when the car gets under 1000K rpm that there is a Lope to the feel of the car. I never said there was ANY idle problems with the cams. "Lope" is a common thing that happens with larger cams and it has nothing to do with poor timing. Some people never notice this at all and some never notice it because they never drop below 1000K at idle. I've heard cars with 272/272 that have had lope and I've heard cars that do not. It's not really a big deal but it's kind of like fuel pump whine. You need to be prepared for the possiblility that it can happen.

HKS used to be the end game of cam selection but there are companies out there such as Comp cams that are producing similar results for less money. Personally I'll stick with HKS because of thier time and time again proven cams but I'm sure over time Comp is going to make thier name in the Cam market for DSMs.

Gotcha.. Lopey as in whiney and all.I was thinking as in a lopey idle or something to that extent,Not noisy.Thanks for clarifying that tho.I havent had that probleme but then again I havent noticed it or tried to.

From what I heard Comp was buiying theirs form this one comapny that was making blanks and sent out a bad set prior to Comp getting thier blanks from them.something to the extent of they were bad sets and for the most part were damaging peoples engines.If they can bypass that bad rep the company they buy from got then they should be fine.I, like you, prefer HKS because they are a proven company with our cams.

 

[DSMNightmare]

Gotcha.. Lopey as in whiney and all.I was thinking as in a lopey idle or something to that extent,Not noisy.Thanks for clarifying that tho.I havent had that probleme but then again I havent noticed it or tried to.

From what I heard Comp was buiying theirs form this one comapny that was making blanks and sent out a bad set prior to Comp getting thier blanks from them.something to the extent of they were bad sets and for the most part were damaging peoples engines.If they can bypass that bad rep the company they buy from got then they should be fine.I, like you, prefer HKS because they are a proven company with our cams.

No, when I say lopey I mean some people find it uncomforatable but others don't. For example. When my car is down at about 800rpms... my wife may not like to sit and feel the lope but it doesn't phase me one bit. Same goes for the 272s. Some people might think that it's just enough to be annoying while others will appreciate it for what it is. When the rpms are higher lope is less noticable. I notice some folks idle at 1200 and that's too high for me but the lope is barely noticable with just 400 more rpms. It's not really a big deal in the end because if you want the added peformance there are things that need to be expected.

I'll swear by HKS till the end because they have been nothing but good to me. That's good info to have about the comp cams because I had no clue. I have a buddy who has them and swears by them but he just recently had issues with his car too. Hopefully the two are not related.

 

[suicidal2af]

Gotcha.. Lopey as in whiney and all.I was thinking as in a lopey idle or something to that extent,Not noisy.Thanks for clarifying that tho.I havent had that probleme but then again I havent noticed it or tried to.

From what I heard Comp was buiying theirs form this one comapny that was making blanks and sent out a bad set prior to Comp getting thier blanks from them.something to the extent of they were bad sets and for the most part were damaging peoples engines.If they can bypass that bad rep the company they buy from got then they should be fine.I, like you, prefer HKS because they are a proven company with our cams.

Web cams were the cams that had issues from their supplier. The cams would wear down the lobes extremely fast.