Help diagnosing knock w/vid.

[turbolover10]

Allright I'm going to do my best trying to explain this so I might get some good suggestions.

I've recently noticed a bad knocking sound coming from the block/head and I'm having problems trying to determine what it is?? Look at my profile for mods and I've read most of the rod knock threads on this forum, so far from what I've read it seems it could be the b/s..

The knocking started after I ran out at the track @18psi on 110 and then the next day turned the boost up to about 23psi to go out the following day and try to get another run in. I didn't bring the rpms past 4k when setting the mbc and I had a friend monitor the knock with dsmlink when we where doing this...
When we finally got the mbc set, we started heading home and noticed the knock @about 2-3k rpm's and the knocking would get worse the higher the rpms increased but I didn't bring it up much past 3k.

Since then I've parked the car and checked,
The head, by taking the v/c off and inspecting the rocker arms/cams making sure everything was tight and in place.

Then I moved on to the oil, drained it and there where no metal savings.
Dropped the pan still nothing??

Next I wiggled the rods to make sure one didn't have more play then the others... After that I pulled the #4 rod cap and inspected the bearing still nothing...

I've also looked as close as possible at the balance shaft, "from in the block and don't see any bearing floating around or anything???"

Here's a video that I took, any suggestions are much appreciated.
ImageShack - Hosting :: pa230210pd7.flv

 

[Spln_Hrd]

My experiences with rod/main bearing failures ended up with the oil coming out and looking fairly clean, but when I would pull the pan it would be full of brass and other soft metals.

Almost sounds like a crankshaft wacking a crank position sensor though, not to bring up crankwalk(I seldom do). Hard to tell though not being in person. I suggest using a stethyscope(SP?) (like doctors have for listening to your heart/lungs/what ever)

 

[turbolover10]

Yea thats actually my next step cause I really didn't narrow down where the noise was comming from.

I forgot to add that I try'd to pry the crank but it seems like its pretty snug, I could be wrong though...

Actually I did find a little tiny peace of metal attached to the filter on the bottom of the block, "not sure what its called." Other than that no brass, copper bearings laying in the pan or anything...

I guess I will re-assemble everything tomorrow and pick up a stethascope, I just dont want to hurt anything more than it already is you know...

 

[Spln_Hrd]

Yeah sorry to hear the bad news bud. What filter are you refering to?

Is it a magnet of some sort. In that case something to keep in mind, bearings are made of non-ferrous metals so they will not be magnetic if you want to check what that peice is made out of.

My first expiernce with a 7 bolt with to much end play(crankwalk starting) I did not feel it was very much movement although deffinatly noticable. The engine never fully walked because it failed from a spun rod bearing. Try prying it towards the transaxle then pushing the clutch and see how much it moves.

 

[turbolover10]

Yeah sorry to hear the bad news bud. What filter are you refering to?

Is it a magnet of some sort. In that case something to keep in mind, bearings are made of non-ferrous metals so they will not be magnetic if you want to check what that peice is made out of.

Not really sure what its called, its bolted to the bottom of the block with 2 bolts I believe, has a little shaft that extends down and it has a mesh metal cover "it gets in the way if your trying to take the #4 rod cap off" and it sitts in the bottom of the oil pan when its assembled??
Not really sure if its magnetic either, the metal seemed to be aluminum and it was a very tiny peace seemed like it might have been jammed in there??

My first expiernce with a 7 bolt with to much end play(crankwalk starting) I did not feel it was very much movement although deffinatly noticable. The engine never fully walked because it failed from a spun rod bearing. Try prying it towards the transaxle then pushing the clutch and see how much it moves.

I'll definitely try this tomorrow, thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Spln_Hrd]

That is the tube your oil pump uses to suck the oil from your pan. It's not uncommon to see SMALL amounts metal in there.

 

[93_tsi_fwd]

Have you tried using a timing light? Your timing might of jumped and your pistons are hitting the valves.

 

[pitbull419]

1. find out where the noise is coming from.
2. Make a better video.Maybe turn the volume down on the camera.

 

[turbolover10]

Have you tried using a timing light? Your timing might of jumped and your pistons are hitting the valves.

If thats the case would it knock at idle too??

1. find out where the noise is coming from.
2. Make a better video.Maybe turn the volume down on the camera.

Will do!

 

[93_tsi_fwd]

yea it will. thats not the case. the first time i watch that video, i didnt hear it very well. sorry about that.

Does the knock sound like its comming fron the timing belt area?

 

[turbolover10]

Its a possibility but from what I remember it seemed more like the head/block.

I'm going to put everything back together and get a stethascope. When I narrow down where its comming from I'll try to get a better video clip up..

Thanks for the suggestions guys, keep the ideas coming.

 

[Zex4g63]

It sounds like one of two things to me. 1. wristpin(which wouldn't surprise me on a 7bolt.
2. a balance shaft flopping around. You could check the wristpin by pulling a plug wire off one at a time while running it. If the noise goes away than you have found your issue. Whatever it is I do believe you'll be pulling the engine.

 

[DSMopar]

Valves hitting pistons? Sorry dude but that's the dumbest post i've seen....

Note that it's dependant upon accel/decel and certain frequencies, it's not a rod but it does sound like something that's full speed (not valve train). Wrist pin is very possible. Particularly since it started after high load...

 

[turbolover10]

Update!!

I was pulling my rod caps and sure enough the #1 rod had spun a bearing...

The good news is I only drove the car for less than a mile when it was knocking so it didn't do any damage to the crank, "as far as I can see."

I'm probably going to take a chance and replace the bearings and see what happens..
I figure its worth a try..

Opinions welcome, here's some pics so if anyone has similar symptoms you know what to look for

Thanks for the help and suggestions guys!!

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It was the #1 rod, from what I've read this rod is most likely to spin a bearing.

Heres a pic of the other bearings,
#2 Rod"this was the only bearing that had a lot of copper material when pulled off"

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#3,

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Again thanks to all who helped and thanks to tuners for the space!

 

[turbolover10]

Last but not least #4, "The first bearing I pulled off if you've been following the thread."

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I couldn't post this above so I figured I would add it.

 

[diggerzmound]

My car spun #4, you don't want to run the engine much with loose bearings, the clearances are tight enough that a spun bearing can cause the piston to hit the head.

 

[turbolover10]

Okay... I don't plan on running the engine, everythings ripped apart including rod caps and bearings if you couldn't tell...

 

[wont_luz]

I think he's suggesting that you should invest in a new crank. Every time you hear a knock in the motor from a spun bearing, think of it as taking a hammer to the crank...eventually it will be oval in shape, and the new bearings are round (at least last I heard, ). Do it once, do it right

 

[turbolover10]

Yea I know what happens when you spin a bearing and I know its highly unlikely that changing the bearings will work but I figure its worth a try because if it doesn't work I'm gonna start from scratch anyway.

 

[turbolover10]

Well I decided to grab some oem "standard" bearings, I just got done assembling them and taking it for a 10 min ride and everythings seems good so far, "knock on wood."

Just for the record I did find some metal in the bottom of the pan and I made sure I got every last peace of it out! I'm going to drain the oil and put some fresh sythetic in it tomorrow so hopefully I have some time to save for a 6 bolt!! Hopefully this will be helpful to someone in the future, I'll report back if anything goes wrong.

 

[luvmygst]

IFit makes you feel any better I spun #1 and just replaced the bearing, I drove it for over 5000 miles while I built my other motor. The funny part is when I pulled it back out #1 wasn't in much worse shape than the rest of them. One thing that I think helped is I ran thick oil (20-50) and lucas oil stabilizer to keep the oil pressure up.

 

[turbolover10]

Dammit why didn't you tell me that about an hr ago.

I just drained the oil again and didn't see one flake of metal, replaced it with 10/30 mobil 1. I'll probably change it again in a couple hundred miles to 20/50 cause I live in FL anyway, its like 80 right now.

My lifters where ticking a little though so I might change the lifters out tonight, I already have 3g's waiting to be put in..

Btw, did you get on it at all after it spun a bearing?? I don't think I would take a chance unless I had the other motor ready, just wondering.

 

[luvmygst]

I ran it about like normal, which would not be considered gentle I did keep the boost turned down though(to stock)