Head units, speakers and watts. Oh my!

[95redturboawd]

Alright so I have the stock Infinity speakers in my car right now, with a Kenwood head unit that puts out 50 watts x 4. I don't really like it so I'm thinking of installing a different one.

Assuming I got either/both this Panasonic head unit that puts out 70 watts x 4 -

Amazon.com: Remanufactured Panasonic CQ C9701U CD Reciever/MP3 Playback, 70 Watts x 4 Power: Electronics

and these 200 watt Pioneer speakers - http://www.maddsm.com/images/misc/pioneerspeakers.JPG (guy is selling them for $30, seems low?) what kind of results would I see installing both, or one or the other, in terms of sound quality? I just have the stock amp.

 

[97dark_angel]

it should sound pretty good i still have the stock infinity amp tat comes with the car(under the pass. seat) and i put in 5 1/2 sony explode and 3 way 6x9 in the back explodes and i get good sound out of it, BUT if you have the built in amp you have to get the MITAH wiring adapter. if not your going to run into problems, good luck

oh yeah look at ebay for speakers or even amazon you can get new ones for a good price those look kind of old also speakers with bigger magnets will not fit trust me i tried but ones will.

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

headunits may advertise 50x4 but that is peak power. rms wattage is actually only 15 or so. you imagine even a cheap 4channel amp that actually does put out 50watt RMS power compared to the 15 from most/all aftermarket decks is a noticible difference.

It looks like decks are advertising 70x4 now. Still that is peak power, and the website does not show actual rms power. I'm assuming around 20.

I've had a chance to experiment recently by ear. My ears tell me that running deck power to the speakers over the stock amp sounds better. Of course if you eliminate the stock amp and install the deck straight from the harness behind the radio, you will lose the dash speakers/tweeters making the soundstage inferior. Depending on the speaker setup you have in the doors it may sound worse because it won't sound complete.

It's a good idea to get a component set for the front whether you install an aftermarket amp power the speakers, or just running deck power.

As far as what will sound better, there are a lot of variables involved and I mentioned a few. it looks like those are 6x9s for the rears? Dark Angel is correct, watch out for 6x9s that have huge magnets, or mounting depths that is 2.5-5+. You will have to pound the fender, or custom the mount by adding spacers. My advice, if you are getting subs, forget expensive rear speakers! If you tune the soundstage properly, the rear speakers will just be for fill and will be overpowered by the fronts and the subs so even cheaps will do. Of course if you're not getting subs, it might be something to pay attention to, but it will be limited by the crappy rear mounting unless you do some modification.

.................

I will have to correct 97dark_angel, you DO NOT NEED to get the MITAH adapter if you have the stock amp. It's an option. It all depends on what setup you are planning to do. If you get the MITAH adapter, the stock amp will power the speakers and not the deck. The positives with this is wiring is easy and there is a built in xover in the amp so you're dash speakers WILL work.

However as I mentioned earlier, my ears tell me even deck power provides just a bit more and better sound than the aging stock amps we have. So I believe you will get better quality having your new deck powering the speakers. The negative is your dash speakers WILL NOT work unless you, 1) get components and wiring accordingly, 2) wire the tweeters parallel and get bassblocker/xover for them so they don't blow.

 

[95redturboawd]

Haha I was hoping you would answer RedTurboEclipse. I remember reading your contributions in a different thread. I don't plan on upgrading the amp, and probably not the speakers unless I see a sweet deal. Here is another picture of those rear ones - http://www.maddsm.com/images/misc/pioneerspeakers2.JPG

I guess I was hoping I wouldn't have to alter anything else, including the dash speakers. I'm not really sure how they're set up at the moment. So from what I understand, the Panasonic head unit would basically overpower the stock amp and sound the same as my current head unit? Would I be better off keeping my current head unit and getting a new amp?

 

[Johnnydsmdude]

if you bring your car to maddsm we can install them right there, and for whatever reason they do not fit, then you don't need to purchase them.. and if they don't sound as good as you anticipated, we can remove them and you don't owe me anything

The speakers came out of a DSM, so I know that they work.

feel free to call me if you want to make arrangements to come over to the shop
586 604 0039


if you would want me to ship them out to you, then I can install them in a 2g, and take a picture of it with it on and off the housing so you can see the lack of modification also.

 

[95redturboawd]

Oh are you the one selling them on xceedspeed? I didn't know there was a DSM shop in Sterling Heights, where exactly is it?

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

It's really hard to tell if they will fit fine in the back. JohnnyDSMDude seems to be the seller. So ask him what DSM it came out of. If its a 2g thats a good sign, and if it is was the mount unmodified to make it fit. But if he says he will install it, then he should have the mount also. They look a bit aged, what model is it and how long ago.

Haha I was hoping you would answer RedTurboEclipse. I remember reading your contributions in a different thread. I don't plan on upgrading the amp, and probably not the speakers unless I see a sweet deal. Here is another picture of those rear ones - http://www.maddsm.com/images/misc/pioneerspeakers2.JPG

I guess I was hoping I wouldn't have to alter anything else, including the dash speakers. I'm not really sure how they're set up at the moment. So from what I understand, the Panasonic head unit would basically overpower the stock amp and sound the same as my current head unit? Would I be better off keeping my current head unit and getting a new amp?

How is your current setup installed now? You have your kenwood deck right? Are your dash speakers/tweeters working with the kenwood deck installed? If not, then that is the usual outcome when people install aftermarket decks using a wiring harness connecting everything behind the radio. That is actually normal go figure. This setup tells you one thing, you already are NOT using the stock amp anymore. You can remove that if you wish. You would need the MITAH adapter to put that back in play, but you probably wouldn't want to do that at this point.

If your dash/speakers currently work with your kenwood deck, this could mean 2 things, you have the MITAH adapter already and the stock amp is powering the speakers, hence the xover and wiring in place to have all speakers working, OR, the installer new the wiring or ran new wiring to connect the dash speakers/tweeters parallel with the front with some use of a xover/bass blocker, or you dont know you may actually have a component system.

As for the new deck, if you like the new deck better because it has more features you want/need, then go for it. But if you are simply getting it because you think it will sound so much better, than you might watn to rethink that, esp if it has less features. Also depends how much you are getting it. Find out the RMS power output of both of the decks and you will see which one will provide more power.

If the dash speakers are not working and you want them to, I already mentioned a few routes you can take. You have a 95 so you might be lucky and have the 2 SETs wires thats in the dash. One is for people with stock amp, and the other are for people who dont. One is white connector, another is black. I can't remember right now, but one set is the one that runs parallel, you connect the tweeters to those, and get a bass blocker sot hey don't blow.

 

[PickleRick]

I hate to go off topic.
But I ran into the same thing Dark Angel stated earlier with the huge magnets but in the tweeters up on the dash of the 2g.

Everything works the wiring is fine and i'll be upgrading to an Aftermarket amp soon.

However, I got a couple tweeters for 50 and I went out.
However the magnets are just cm short of filling the hole.
Is that something I can have cut out?
Also, they have bolt holes in them.
Should I use those? Or just leave them loose?

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

I hate to go off topic.
But I ran into the same thing Dark Angel stated earlier with the huge magnets but in the tweeters up on the dash of the 2g.

Everything works the wiring is fine and i'll be upgrading to an Aftermarket amp soon.

However, I got a couple tweeters for 50 and I went out.
However the magnets are just cm short of filling the hole.
Is that something I can have cut out?
Also, they have bolt holes in them.
Should I use those? Or just leave them loose?

wow $50 tweeters. That's more than the component set I got for my beater heh. Are you saying the magnet is too big in outer diameter that it won't actually go into the hole? If so damn thats a huge tweeter. If so, then I would assume yes you would need to do some cutting and some custom work to have it sit flushed.

Maybe some pics will help. What bolts are you speaking of. Generally when people upgrade the dash speakers in the 2g, its usually with the tweeters that come in a component set. Those are usually 1". To make a nice clean stock/oem looking install, we just gut the stock dash speaker, because most of the time they are already blown, and use it as a basket to house the new tweeter since its much smaller (although its not the size that matters in this case, all 1" tweeters i've put in can't compare to the stock crap). Then we put the grill back on so it looks clean.

Another alternative are these tweeters which oddly enough seems like it was made for our cars. They have a housing around then which sits perfectly flush in the dash. The tweeter thread has pics of it. Although those are much harder to find, and most of the time people won't just get tweeters if they can get a nice complete component set instead. But thats just another choice.

 

[PickleRick]

wow $50 tweeters. That's more than the component set I got for my beater heh. Are you saying the magnet is too big in outer diameter that it won't actually go into the hole? If so damn thats a huge tweeter. If so, then I would assume yes you would need to do some cutting and some custom work to have it sit flushed.

Maybe some pics will help. What bolts are you speaking of. Generally when people upgrade the dash speakers in the 2g, its usually with the tweeters that come in a component set. Those are usually 1". To make a nice clean stock/oem looking install, we just gut the stock dash speaker, because most of the time they are already blown, and use it as a basket to house the new tweeter since its much smaller (although its not the size that matters in this case, all 1" tweeters i've put in can't compare to the stock crap). Then we put the grill back on so it looks clean.

Another alternative are these tweeters which oddly enough seems like it was made for our cars. They have a housing around then which sits perfectly flush in the dash. The tweeter thread has pics of it. Although those are much harder to find, and most of the time people won't just get tweeters if they can get a nice complete component set instead. But thats just another choice.

Yeah, well they're nice.
They were on sale at best buy.
I might go to car toys.
At this point, i'm wondering if they're more speakers than tweeters because they're huge.
And the fact that usually tweeters don't have holes that are supposed to drilled into the dash. Unless it's a newer anti theft thing.
Yeah the hole in the dash is too small.

I didn't want to just skip over the tweeters because I want depth in my sound system.
The rest of the DSM is good with the rear and door panels. And soon as I get an amp i'll go with two ten inch subs.

 

[DGajre777]

I installed tweeters where my stock 3 1/2" speakers went.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...market-tweeters-2g-factory-dash-speakers.html

As said before, look at RMS power, not peak power.

If you are not getting an amp, look at the db rating as well. A set of speakers rated at 93db will be louder than a set of speakers at 87db. A 3db increase is perceived as doubling the loudness by the human ear but it takes twice the power to get a 3db increase in your audio system. With that said I'm going back to writing my paper, good luck with your setup.

 

[PickleRick]

Well i took it to a collision shop and they had a tool called a tee grinder?
Or something.

It's like a sander and he just sanded that plastic away and they're installed and sound nice :]]

So if I upgraded to a aftermarket amp.
Would it be okay to throw 6 inch subs into the doors?

 

[95redturboawd]

It's really hard to tell if they will fit fine in the back. JohnnyDSMDude seems to be the seller. So ask him what DSM it came out of. If its a 2g thats a good sign, and if it is was the mount unmodified to make it fit. But if he says he will install it, then he should have the mount also. They look a bit aged, what model is it and how long ago.



How is your current setup installed now? You have your kenwood deck right? Are your dash speakers/tweeters working with the kenwood deck installed? If not, then that is the usual outcome when people install aftermarket decks using a wiring harness connecting everything behind the radio. That is actually normal go figure. This setup tells you one thing, you already are NOT using the stock amp anymore. You can remove that if you wish. You would need the MITAH adapter to put that back in play, but you probably wouldn't want to do that at this point.

If your dash/speakers currently work with your kenwood deck, this could mean 2 things, you have the MITAH adapter already and the stock amp is powering the speakers, hence the xover and wiring in place to have all speakers working, OR, the installer new the wiring or ran new wiring to connect the dash speakers/tweeters parallel with the front with some use of a xover/bass blocker, or you dont know you may actually have a component system.

As for the new deck, if you like the new deck better because it has more features you want/need, then go for it. But if you are simply getting it because you think it will sound so much better, than you might watn to rethink that, esp if it has less features. Also depends how much you are getting it. Find out the RMS power output of both of the decks and you will see which one will provide more power.

If the dash speakers are not working and you want them to, I already mentioned a few routes you can take. You have a 95 so you might be lucky and have the 2 SETs wires thats in the dash. One is for people with stock amp, and the other are for people who dont. One is white connector, another is black. I can't remember right now, but one set is the one that runs parallel, you connect the tweeters to those, and get a bass blocker sot hey don't blow.

Yes my dash speakers are working with my kenwood deck. I can change the fade on the head unit to play music out of just the front two speakers. Where does the MITAH adapter go exactly, so I can check and see if I have one? Also, thanks very much for your help.

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

you can fade to the front and ONLY the dash speakers, NOT THE DOOR SPEAKERS, will play? So where does that put the rear speakers then? If the above is true then it was installed making the dash speakers the front, and the door speakers the rear, with the actual rear speakers not working? Or the rear speakers run parallel with the fronts.

Regardless, any setup where you fade and just the dash speakers are working is a very weird install.

MITAH is proprietary wiring basically turning the din cable that connects to the stock amp into RCA connections to plug in to your aftermarket deck. If the rca outputs on your deck are being used and they turn into some weird connector that goes into your stock amp, then that would be a MITAH adapter or some variation of it.

A CORRECT install in our cars would be fading to the front would only have the DOOR SPEAKERS or DASH and DOOR SPEAKERS working only, and fading to the rear would only be the REAR SPEAKERS working

 

[95redturboawd]

Sorry sorry I meant the door speakers. I didn't know we had dash speakers. If I fade it all the way to the front and left, it sounds like it's ONLY coming out of that door speaker. I have to do a little more research before looking for an adapter.

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

yea we have dash speakers. look down on the corners of the dash and you see those little grills. it should be noticible, but if you only hear sound (your soundfield) primarily coming from the lower sides (the door speakers), chances are those dash speakers are not working, which confirms that the kenwood deck was installed the usual way by someone who doesn't know how the 2g audio works. Normal, but not the optimal way.