GST vs VW's ?

[bluelightning92]

now i don't have to watch comedy central i got all my laughs right here

 

[97ClipseDSM]

Umm ok im pretty much done with this topic but 1 last thing. A jetta Vr6 does not run 15.1 quartermile time. Also, sorry to say this but i will, the older volkswagons (97) are a bunch of ugly pieces of shit. They might as well be family sedans. All the VW boys down here even my cousin calls his Jetta a "box on wheels". Atleast the eclipse got some beauty and speed to go with it, wut does a volkswagon have?? Nothing, and to say a stock vr6 can keep up with an eclipse, which eclipse are you referring to. The nonturbo?? Anyways im done with this topic, best of luck in tuning your jetta.

My Vw Kill list in my first 4 days of driving stick ever

VW Jetta Golf Vr6
VW Jetta GTI
VW 1.8Turbo
VW Jetta GLX VR6
VW carrata (i think thats how you spell it)
VW Passat (200 HP one i think)

so you see ive raced every single friend of mines volkswagon and they admit there car is no match compared to a stock GST.

And 1 car i did lose to was 1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX stock. The driver was so impressive, very experienced driver who took advantage of my errors. And i dont mind losing to a GSX, because after all, A GSX is and will always be my favorite eclipse.

 

[VEE-DUBBER]

pretty sad how nieve people on this site are. I've watched modded
gs-t's go 16.5 so that means they wont run in the 14's. I love everybody who gives car facts because they have read a super street or "motor trend" time print. Jetta GTI? no such car man. there were no 200hp passats built either. early 1.8T's were rated 150crankhp and the 02's were 180crank rated but put out around 175 to the wheels. the VR6 in 03 changed to a 24v motor making 201hp. the older 12v was rated at 172hp. Track times are all on drivers launch. having so much low end with a VW makes it insanely hard to launch and just spin the shit out of the tires. I was hadcore into dubs for a long time and have seen NCIE cars and not people that dont know what they're doing drive. most of them run like crap do to poor maint. when my brother had a k&n on his 98 gti vr6 he laid down 171whp 1less horse then it was rated to the crank. Went 15.0 at the track 1st time out. if i wanted a FWD car for twisties (which i dont) a VW will outhandle ANY DSM any day of the week. Not sayin i dont believe you guys have beat VW's cause i know you have and most around aren't that fast, but most of you need to get real facts straight.

 

[97ClipseDSM]

Pretty sad you cant spell. And your a ####ing disgrace to DSM's.

 

[97ClipseDSM]

and modded GS-t's go 16.5?? Which GST are you referring to? 1st or 2nd gen? Because i know thers no way in hell a first or 2nd gen runs that low with mods so quit making up your bullshit times. Get a life and get your facts straight before you come and talk. My auto Eclipse RS with a cold air intake and exhaust, and headers ran a 16.5 and your up here talking about GST's running 16.5 with mods?? Loser

 

[99GSTszeikus]

i have raced more then one wv and i have taken them all from dead stops and rolls, plus i drive a freaking automatic. I also have driven some of the wv's. My favorite is my dad's corrado, that thing doesn't have the speed of an gst eclipse, but it does have better handling compared to an eclipse. Basicly what im saying is that at the track the stock gst will own any stock wv, but keep in mind im saying stock. any car with the right mods can freaking move. Sikracing97gst, basicly if their stock, race them and make some money of it. make sure you do it at a safe location, and don't kill anyone.

 

[fireredGST]

So a passat with 180hp makes 175 whp? It only loses 5hp to the wheels ? MORON....

If you like VWs so much , get off a DSM board.

It doesn't matter if you are the best driver in the world, you 1/4 time is based on the power of your car. 180hp won't get you 14s. On the other hand several BONE STOCK GST's have run 14.7-14.8, a FWD guy on here just posted his slips.


The new GTI's actually make 200hp, seems to me your a rice-boy that doens't know jack shit about cars.

 

[senseiturtle]

Originally posted by fireredGST
So a passat with 180hp makes 175 whp? It only loses 5hp to the wheels ? MORON....

Actually. Yes. VW is notorious for underrating their engines.


The best example of this happens with the new 1.8T... 180 crank... but SEVERAL tuners have recorded nearly 180 whp, from a stock engine. VW does this in order to keep the VR6 as the "top of the line" engine, since 180whp would translate to more CHP than the 24v VR6.


Everything Vee-dubber has posted is correct, instead of a substitution of "gs-t" for "gs". An eclipse GS stock 1/4 time should be approx. 16.5, although I have seen slightly better here at zero elevation.

I do not doubt that the original poster pulled slightly on a stock VR6, but 6-8 cars is more than anyone should expect.

I think several of us are guilty of not having an open mind... Yes, there are cars that can keep up with your precious GS-T, even though they "shouldn't" on paper. That's what racing is all about.

 

[97ClipseDSM]

All i can say to veedub and sensiteturtle, BULLSHIT. There is no way a passat has 175 WHP..if that was the case id be getting owned by a Passat or we'd be dead even. You dumbasses quite franktly dont know jackshit about cars and how the crank and wheel horsepower work, if thats the case, than why does a GST almost lose 30 WHP or more?? And a passat only loses 5?? Whatever you want to call it, a VR6 is a Vr6. Its nothing special and i can understand if you want to be cocky and want to show love for your inferrior VR6 and your "Boxy" volkswagons because after all, you are volkswagon's bitches. Why dont you run down to your nearest Volkswagon dealer if you love Vw's so much and beg on your knees to give you a free 3 year warranty cause you might need it when your so called VR6 is found dead on the road. Just look at Volkswagons maintanence issues. And If you still dont believe how badly i beat my friends Vr6, you are welcome to come down to VA and meet me on 28 in manassas and i will be more than willing to kick your box piece of shit's sorry ass. Ill even give you a head start just for the hell of it. And just to say this much, atleast i know facts are facts just like i know a Toyota Supra TT will rape a GSX or a GST stock or a WRX is quicker than an Eclipse. Atleast i admit to facts, but you, you wont admit the truth because you dont want your inferrior VR6 engine to look bad. Ill tell you what if your Volkswagons are that fast, why dont you race me in my dads 300ZX twin turbo and well see how fast and deadly a VR6 engine really is.

 

[97ClipseDSM]

And also one other thing. I know im more performance than looks but how would it feel if you owned a sexy ass car that was quick at the same time?? It is called an Eclipse GST. Now, here we bring up a Volkswagon jetta, ugly POS, average at best. Why would you even want to own a jetta?? Is it because of the handling, because im just curious is that why you bought a jetta because of its handling or something?? I mean just look at the freakin car, you need to put a body kit on it just to look as good as a stock WRX (even though i dont think a wrx looks all that great). Who are you trying to impress with such a car that looks like it was built in the 80's. Look at the GSR, it may have less horsepower than a Vr6 but it also has some looks to back it up which the Vr6 doesnt have. So id buy a GSR over a VR6 anyday. Vtech over a Vr6.

 

[miguels3000]

Originally posted by fireredGST
Actually you owning a VW, and listening to people that say a VR6 has so much more TQ than a DSM(and coming on a DSM forum) makes you pathetic.

When did I provide a threat on the forum? you don't know me, and you better pray I never catch you at a DSM meet, I will make you eat you words.

It doesn't matter if you are the best driver in the world, you 1/4 time is based on the power of your car

First of all where on here do you see me saying I own a vw.............. Read again and look to the left it says 97 gst spyder.............
read again and I say my own experience..............
read again and tell me where I said you made a threat.............
pray I never run into you at a meet...Okay yeah i was planning on going to New jersey for the next meet, keep an eye out for me, wait I live in Cali...Damn...........


Here take the time to read this. If you beleve that 1/4 time is based on HP, Id say put the childrens book down and read this, green eggs and ham can wait. There are alot of factors you need to concider or else drag racing wouldnt be a sport/event.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10243


Don’t get me wrong, I love my DSM. but you seriously have to re-evaluate that wanna be pride for dsm and look at it realistically. We all love our cars for our own reasons. If we all had the same car what difference would it be from one race to the next. Its the time and dedication we individually put into it, that makes racing someone else worth it, put me in the fastest dsm and have me win any other car and the victory would not compare to me racing any one else and winning or lossing with the car I put work into my self, Seriously go to a racetrack with that attitude and you will find yourself alone with no one willing to help or care about youre car even if it is fast.

 

[fireredGST]

Originally posted by senseiturtle
Actually. Yes. VW is notorious for underrating their engines.


The best example of this happens with the new 1.8T... 180 crank... but SEVERAL tuners have recorded nearly 180 whp, from a stock engine. VW does this in order to keep the VR6 as the "top of the line" engine, since 180whp would translate to more CHP than the 24v VR6.


Everything Vee-dubber has posted is correct, instead of a substitution of "gs-t" for "gs". An eclipse GS stock 1/4 time should be approx. 16.5, although I have seen slightly better here at zero elevation.

I do not doubt that the original poster pulled slightly on a stock VR6, but 6-8 cars is more than anyone should expect.

I think several of us are guilty of not having an open mind... Yes, there are cars that can keep up with your precious GS-T, even though they "shouldn't" on paper. That's what racing is all about.

I raced a PASSAT, gave him the lead, blew past him like he was standing still in 2nd gear.

Don't be jealous that your GROCERY GETTER Jetta will never be a Eclipse, its ok it really is.

Arguing with you is like trying to make a retard understand, so im done with this topic.

BULLSHIT , anybody can state what they want. Show me a dyno of a bone stock VW.


A DYNO for a stock R32 GTI....

174HP , almost as much as a stock GST.

OWNED!!!!!

DYNO





Well I ended up running 4 chips instead of 3
Stock, P-chip, Garrett's, & beta

I will be mailed the complete data packet later this week.
I have NO torque numbers what so ever for any of the tested chips.

All runs were corrected for pressure, temp, daylight savings time,
the position of the moon and stars, Opra's menstral period, and
god knows what else.

The data I have in inconslusive at best. I have 1 peek hp
number for each chip. Also let me add, I got gas from a different
location than I usually do, I think this played the largest factor
in ALL the chips as my car just didn't feel "ON" like it usually does.
I got Shell Premium 93 octane, and I usually get Phillips 66 93 octane.
I got bad gas mileage to and from the event to proov it. With the
P-chip and Garretts chip, 30 minutes of driving at 65-70 with the cruise
control yeilds 28-30 MPG. Today, I got 21.3 to and from the event.
Nothing is different in my car but the gas and I believe this played the
largest factor in the results I got. I pulled LESS Hp with the P-chip
than I did last March with it, so that has to be it.

Anyway the following is fragmants of what data I do have, remember
the torque numbers and RPM numbers I DO NOT have.

Stock----> Peek 148 Hp

P-Chip----> Peek 153 Hp

Garrett----> Peek 149 Hp

Beta----> 149 Hp

There are 8 runs total, two for each chip, I have only fragmented data
as the computer operator just posted the Hp numbers now and then so I
don't even know what runs have what data.

Garrett's regular chip pulls like a bat out of hell! Very strong
acceleration past 3500RPMs, and his beta chip is even more insain!
I timed how long it took to hit redline from 1500 RPMS, and the Beta
chip was by far the fastest, with the most MPH/RPM but it only had
149 Hp, so I don't get it??? I personally know this BETA chip is
insain, I got busted doing 120 in 3rd gear in a 45 zone. This chip
is crazy fast, but the dyno sayd it's barly over stock Hp. All chips
were driven 20-30 prior to testing, 1) to get the engine oil temp min.
180 and 2) to get the computer to learn it's new limits.


This is why I need the torque data as well as the entire rest of the
days data for my car. I just don't have the complete picture.
I'd be willing to bet that the torque curves for Garrett's chip's
are very high as the car just pulls and pulls gobs more than stock
and P-chip do.


Also a new chip tuner in europe will be entering the US market and was
on hand testing some of there beta chips for the new Passatt 1.8 T.

Stock ----> 114.6 Hp

Version 2-----> 135.? Hp

Version 3-----> 143.? Hp

Version 4-----> 148.? Hp




Couple Dyno's on a VW message board a guy got of his 96 GTI VR6.

 

[senseiturtle]

Funny... I'm getting told to "watch my reliability" by a DSM owner. I used to own a DSM, and I had more problems in the first month of ownership than I have ever had with my VW.


It turns out, pure-stock dynos are hard to find. The closest I DID find, however, for a 1.8T is found here

http://www.18turbo.com/brandonyoung.jpg

He has a CAI and turbo-back exhaust. No chip. Note, that this is a 2001, which came with a listed stock "150 hp". Either his car came with more than that, or he gained 50+ whp from just an intake and exhaust.

Now, a stock 12v VR6 dyno.

http://www.evoms.com/vw 12 v dyno.htm

These guys only managed 155 whp, a little on the low end, but it's an example.

And just to clear a few things up, I'm going to rehash a few things.


1- GST's are faster than stock VWs.

2- GST's are NOT THAT MUCH faster than stock VW's. 2-3 tenths of seconds and 3 MPH is not very much... one or two mods (depending on the mod, of course) can fix that, as well as driver experience.

3- I chose a VW because I liked it. It fits my lifestyle (backseat, trunk, accessories, etc.) far better than most other cars I've tested out. I hated my DSM. I certainly wouldn't wish my previous car problems on anybody.

4- Flukes can and do happen... often. That guy's jetta VR6 ran a 15.1, according to the site fireredgst listed. If his time is bullshit, then can't we consider the rest of them bullshit?

5- This is why I left dsmtuners.com in the first place. This site has a wealth of knowledge, but too many "e-thugs" for my liking. I think the original poster may have exaggerated slightly.... no big deal.. we've all done it. I'm certainly not trying to bash him, his car, or even the story in general... But for some reason, I get flamed for even being here.

I vote... this thread should die. It was a waste of my time, and every else who reads it.

 

[VEE-DUBBER]

damn, i thought the DSM crowd was way more chill, but i guess i'm wrong. Sorry I dont go through and check my typing errors on the internet. Maybe you could help me with some homework.
Seems like it's only the 2g owners too freaking out, kinda like the mk4 vw owners.
by me stating i watched a gs-t go in the 16's was just referring to there being bad drivers out there. I know damn well a bone stock GS-T runs way quicker than that with anybody that can drive decent. I'm not even a VW driver anymore do to the fact i wanted to go fast for less $ and have traction, but DSM's are not the car of all cars out there either. I'd take an SRT-4 over a GS-T anyday......but not a GSX . everybody needs to calm the fu(k down in this thread.

 

[97ClipseDSM]

ok thats your oppinion..just like i would take a Eclipse GST over a talon anyday. Seems to me your in love with AWD, nothing wrong with that, I wish i had a GSX but than again i own a GST...not much different than a GSX in terms of power minus the AWD.

 

[Blktsi_awd_961]

My god all of you need to calm down. Good lord, people will think you are a bunch of old women bickering about where to get the better deals on your depends! How many of you that are bashing these vw's have ever rode in, or driven one? They are fairly quick stock. My friend just got an 04 gti 1.8t and i was pretty impressed with it. As far as how quick it is, I am biased because I drive a 13 sec awd dsm every day, but it has plenty of potential. In fact, it reminds me of my car when it was stock, quick but not super fast, and with lots of potential. Either way, both cars do have one thing in common, we can all beat the sh!t out of mustangs!

 

[senseiturtle]

 

[97ClipseDSM]

Originally posted by Blktsi_awd_961
My god all of you need to calm down. Good lord, people will think you are a bunch of old women bickering about where to get the better deals on your depends! How many of you that are bashing these vw's have ever rode in, or driven one? They are fairly quick stock. My friend just got an 04 gti 1.8t and i was pretty impressed with it. As far as how quick it is, I am biased because I drive a 13 sec awd dsm every day, but it has plenty of potential. In fact, it reminds me of my car when it was stock, quick but not super fast, and with lots of potential. Either way, both cars do have one thing in common, we can all beat the sh!t out of mustangs!

Amen, Mustangs are POS. Every Mustang driver i have come across is so cocky and immature. They think nobody can touch there v6 or v8 but when they get buttraped by even a stock honda civic, thats when they wish they had an import. It reminds me when i had my RS, it was stock 140 horsepower, a stock V6 mustang thought he was the shit so he got next to me and talked shit and how DSM's suck, knowing i had automatic i was still sure i was gonna murder him somewhere down the gears, and thats exactly what happened. I left him 4 cars behind me with my stock RS. , but there is this one thing i will say..I completely hate domestic cars (excluding vipers) and i hate the people that drive them, nothing will make me more happier than watching a VR6 or a GTI rape the hell out of 1. Im an import tuner, and i have love for import cars, so its the domestic owners that are my enemy.

 

[SikRacing97GST]

not to bring an argument or anything, but ive ran pleanty of mustangs, and theyve made me wish i would of never tried in the first place. I agree i hate the kids with the v6 mustangs show boatn around, but i know where im from ( down here in Tennessee) and some of the good ole boys know what in the hell they are doin, I have yet to beat old 5.0 in my DSM. Lose by at least if im ever close enough by 2 cars-- Tony (of course i think part of the problem is because i race from the line , them stangs' are all torque from hell, )

 

[97ClipseDSM]

Originally posted by SikRacing97GST
not to bring an argument or anything, but ive ran pleanty of mustangs, and theyve made me wish i would of never tried in the first place. I agree i hate the kids with the v6 mustangs show boatn around, but i know where im from ( down here in Tennessee) and some of the good ole boys know what in the hell they are doin, I have yet to beat old 5.0 in my DSM. Lose by at least if im ever close enough by 2 cars-- Tony (of course i think part of the problem is because i race from the line , them stangs' are all torque from hell, )

Was the Mustang you raced stock or modded, are you stock or modded. Because i just whooped an 89 LX mustang with my stock GST yesterday. If thats the case, sell your GST now, your a bad driver...j/k

 

[fireredGST]

Slightly Modified GST vs Modified Mustang GT


Bad driver in the GST, what happend to all the Stangs torque

 

[FyxxterZC]

ughh...........I thought the 1.8t's in 01 were rated at 180 crank hp? Truthfully I don't own a vw, damn good autox cars from the looks of em but c'mon man. Give it up to the 4g63 for a drag race, it's gonna murder a vw mod for mod (well except maybe a vr6 with twins but I don't think that counts as a mod for mod situation). And talk about a vw having more torque than a dsm? Vr6 probably has a broader torque curve and probably would come out around what a stock turbo would (so I can see it pulling similar times). You say you had a dsm, did you really? I got some seriously bruised polyurethane motor mount inserts that would tell you a different story there. The vr6's are nice engines I won't argue there, so are the 1.8t's. What you build is what you build, don't come on a dsm board and say a stock 1.8t's gonna rip on a stock 2.0t. Remember that whole "there's no replacement for displacement" argument. If two cars are turboed but one has the bigger displacement, (not to mention both having tiny tim turbos) which do you think is actually going to win an all out straight line race? Also about the cars lasting, I have 109k miles on my 2g car and still drive it to work every day (yes it's a turbo car and no it doesn't have crankwalk). It's all about maintenence and how a cars taken care of. I have a brother that could break ANYTHING......he's only driven my car twice in the 3 years i've owned it too. . But that's another story.

ps. I"ve waxed a gti 1.8t and I've also gotten beaten by a vw beetle with a 1.8t in it. A lot of what's going on with those vw times are mods mods mods. Boost is addictive no matter which car you own. Love it and live with it. Your happy with your vw, I"m happy with my dsm nuff said.

 

[SikRacing97GST]

If you want to call me a bad driver because im losing to a 94 SVT Cobra 5.0 with headers and exhaust, sorry pal, but your wrong. I'm completely stock in my GST and im losing by 2 cars everytime when racing this guy starting from a dead stop. Yes,maybe if i was a little more modded, i would agree with you.
*When you get some time i want you to go look at the difference between a Mustang LX and a SVT Cobra 5.0. And if you can give me anything, and i mean anything that says a LX is anything close to a supercharged 5.0, you can then tell me how bad of a driver i am.
Im not here to argue with anyone, I love my car , I love DsMs. but when someone calls you a bad driver thats just going to raise hell. So please keep your bashing to a limit or bring it to another post.

 

[skier_du]

Originally posted by fireredGST
So a passat with 180hp makes 175 whp? It only loses 5hp to the wheels ?

I'm a DSM guy. But I do know that Vdubs do have fairly efficient drivlines, and it is true that they do under rate their horespower frequently. However there are more factors to going fast thab horsepower and weight. So it is possible to have that power and not be as fast as a GST.

 

[fireredGST]

Read my post , they had a Vw 1.8T dyno of a passat, it only made 150whp , so they dont underate thier engines. The R34 VR6 makes 240hp crank and dyno's at 174WHP.