FWD track times with T28

[larryd]

nice, i know i was always to cheap to buy a quaiffe but im sure it wuold have been a stupdenous difference

 

[DCJ98GST]

Originally posted by secondgen_t
If you're FWD, an LSD is a must if you want to push high hp and put it to the ground. A friend of mine(fwd also) has the fist version of the T28 and his best time to date is a 12.96 with a Quaife. It's expensive but well worth it. You have all the advantages of a closed diff. when you're at WOT and for regular driving your operating just like any other open diff.

Yea, I have seen some pretty good times with the Quaffe LSD. I would like to know how much better they are than the B&M/Phantom LSD because there is a huge difference in price!

$975 Quaffe
$250 B&M w/upgraded spring

Anyone ever compare these side by side?

 

[larryd]

i know of a couple people that have had both and they both said the same thing, the quaiffe is worth every dollar more.

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

frank wat kind of tires were u running when you hit 12s?

 

[DCJ98GST]

Originally posted by larryd
i know of a couple people that have had both and they both said the same thing, the quaiffe is worth every dollar more.

Damn, but it is soo expensive, any other LSD's besides Quaffe that work well but are not $975?

 

[secondgen_t]

Originally posted by RedTurboEclipse
frank wat kind of tires were u running when you hit 12s?

I was running NT555 DR's. They worked well on the street but on the track I got massive amounts of wheel hop. I had to play with the gas pedal in first gear.

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by DCJ98GST


Damn, but it is soo expensive, any other LSD's besides Quaffe that work well but are not $975?

nope.. your options are either the BL LSD, the Phantom Grip LSD which are both essentially the same thing or the Quaiffe clutch type LSD.

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

wow.. and just to think.. i thought i needed a huge turbo and slicks to break into 12s with fwd..

 

[larryd]

nope, just a 1000 LSD and some drag radials

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by larryd


nope.. your options are either the BL LSD, the Phantom Grip LSD which are both essentially the same thing or the Quaiffe clutch type LSD.

I'm not totally positive if they make LSD's for our cars or not, but Kaaz is another company that makes LSD's. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

[pneumo]

MachV.com sells the Kaaz. LSD for about $750. It's a clutch type, so it wears out eventually, but it is stronger than the stock diff. Personally I didn't get such a big drop in 60' time when I put in a Quaife and Nitto 555 drag radials. My 60' time improved by about 2 tenths. I was expecting more. When I still had the open diff I just unbalanced the tire pressure so that both wheels broke free at about the same time. That was good for many 2.2 second 60' times on 205/55 x 16 street tires. For us FWDers it's also important to setup the suspension and remove excess weight from behind the rear axle. I removed about 100 pounds out of the back, and it was worth it. When I did my 12.97 pass I got very little wheel spin in second gear. It would slip for a split second then grab again, then slip a touch more. I know my car is a 1G, but the same tricks work for us all. I also have a Big 16G, which is the same compressor wheel as the T28 Killer. Also check out DSMtimes.org they have a long list of DSM's showing time, mph, FWD or AWD or RWD (check that one out!) and turbo used.

 

[larryd]

I know personally thats what my problem was, my 60fts werent great but it was the 1-2 shift that killed me because I would always spin most of the way through 2nd gear as soon as the turbo kicked in which was immediately.

 

[DCJ98GST]

Originally posted by larryd
I know personally thats what my problem was, my 60fts werent great but it was the 1-2 shift that killed me because I would always spin most of the way through 2nd gear as soon as the turbo kicked in which was immediately.

As far as wheel spin, I am glad I have an A/T. The power delivery is very linear, and between gears there is very little power down time. So once it grips in 1st it stays through all gears. The gearing is less aggressive in 1st = less wheel spin. My only problem is in first when powerbraking, but I am on stock differential, and tires.

 

[DCJ98GST]

Also I heard of people putting (2) 45 lbs plates on the passenger side floor to balance out the weight of the driver. This should help give even weight distribution on the front wheels. It is a trade off because of adding 90lbs to the car weight though.

 

[larryd]

never thought of doing that but it sounds interesting..

 

[machron1]

This was under the worst possible racing conditions:

high humidity (really foggy)
it was cold out (like 40 degrees out)
it rained 10 minutes after this run
my clutch was slipping
i just installed my Greddy Big FMIC and was in the process of tuning my S-AFC for it (now it's leaned out properly)
I wasn't recirculating my BOV yet (now it's fixed)

R/T: 0.548
60': 2.545
330: 6.492
1/8: 9.606
mph: 80.02
1000: 12.203
1/4: 14.377
mph: 105.28

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by machron1
This was under the worst possible racing conditions:

high humidity (really foggy)
it was cold out (like 40 degrees out)
it rained 10 minutes after this run
my clutch was slipping
i just installed my Greddy Big FMIC and was in the process of tuning my S-AFC for it (now it's leaned out properly)
I wasn't recirculating my BOV yet (now it's fixed)

R/T: 0.548
60': 2.545
330: 6.492
1/8: 9.606
mph: 80.02
1000: 12.203
1/4: 14.377
mph: 105.28

Your trap speed is pretty good considering the problems that you mentioned. Not recirculating your bov is a big NO NO! That probably made you run more rich if anything. What psi were you running, and were you using race gas, also were you using your 18" wheels on that run? If you were running the 18" wheel and tire combo I'm sure they are pretty heavy and hurting your performance also. Again... nice run considering your problems, and or conditions that you mentioned.

 

[machron1]

I made it back to the track, but without significant gains:

60': 2.259
1/8: 9.194 @ 79.80 mph
1/4: 13.918 @ 105.98 mph

-I'm running about 20psi @ manifold after it settles, which is maxing out the turbo. My max psi has dropped significantly since the installation of my Big FMIC, but my EGTs are low & it pulls better, so I guess it's just better air.
-Yes that's with my 18" rims & tires.
-Yes they are heavy.
-Yes I still have major traction issues, but at least the ground wasn't moist.
-Yes i'm recirculating BOV now.
-Yes I know I should be doing better

I'm thinking Drag radials and a Quaife LSD should do the trick. An AGP L2R turbo couldn't hurt either.

 

[DCJ98GST]

What octane?
What kind of timing advance are you getting at 20 psi?

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by machron1
I made it back to the track, but without significant gains:

60': 2.259
1/8: 9.194 @ 79.80 mph
1/4: 13.918 @ 105.98 mph

-I'm running about 20psi @ manifold after it settles, which is maxing out the turbo. My max psi has dropped significantly since the installation of my Big FMIC, but my EGTs are low & it pulls better, so I guess it's just better air.
-Yes that's with my 18" rims & tires.
-Yes they are heavy.
-Yes I still have major traction issues, but at least the ground wasn't moist.
-Yes i'm recirculating BOV now.
-Yes I know I should be doing better

I'm thinking Drag radials and a Quaife LSD should do the trick. An AGP L2R turbo couldn't hurt either.

Your definitly getting better each time you visit the track. 4 tenths is a big difference, way to go!! Just curious... what is your altitude where your at? Also, is that with a full weight car? Thanks!!

 

[machron1]

Originally posted by DCJ98GST

What octane?
What kind of timing advance are you getting at 20 psi?

-I was running about 97-98 octane w/ about 25% Toluene and 75% 92 octane unleaded.
-I don't have a pocketlogger, but I can hear when it pulls timing really bad (deep grumble like a boat, power loss) and it didn't seem to be pulling any significant timing. I think the Big FMIC helps with that more than anything because I also run the same boost on pump gas.

Originally posted by SPEEDY
Your definitly getting better each time you visit the track. 4 tenths is a big difference, way to go!! Just curious... what is your altitude where your at? Also, is that with a full weight car? Thanks!!

-I would like to get better 106mph trap speeds should be a lot better than high 13's.
-This was at Portland International Raceway (Oregon). I don't know the altitude, but I think it's near sea level.
-My car is full weight (sans front inner bumper to make room for the Greddy FMIC, spare tire, and jack) but everything else is still there (stereo, seats, etc). I went to the truck scales w/ my setup and it's 2,900 lbs wet WITHOUT me in it (to the nearest 50 lbs).

 

[sp00ln]

I hit a 14.2 with 101 mph trap @ 4200ft... full weight.. 2.5 60', half a tank of pump gas (91)... T-28, FMIC, intercooler pipes, 1g TB and full 3''.. and thats about it.. get me an AFC, Slicks and race gas and ill show you your low 13s

*edit* - It was also my first time at the track. I plan on hitting 13s with the same setup next time I go. Ill have more experiance and i wont be as nervous! hehe

 

[Booosted D S M]

I agree, us FWD's need to look at the traction aspect WELL before the turbo. What tires are you going to be running?? Radials, slicks etc.. what suspension and spring rates do you have?? A Quaiffe is a must, an absolute must, putting a quaiffe on a FWD is comparable to upgrading your turbo in an AWD. It should honestly be one of the first mods you do. For me, once I played around with tires, got a quaiffe, and a front upper strut bar (seemed to help wheel-hop, stiffen the car) but who knows if that was a main factor the difference was amazing. Get the power you have now to the ground in a serious way before you add more power. Once you get there though you're gonna need some tuning devices and making sure you're getting enough fuel. I noticed you said you would be upgrading the fuel system but just make sure you're doing these supporting mods first. It also helps to mod your car a piece at a time, or a few, that way if something isn't driving right on your car you have it narrowed down where to go. A turbo is a large investment to crap out right away because it's not getting the proper oil etc etc. I do have a ported/clipped BR 16G in my car right now and I'd have to say I felt the T25 more in the seat of my pants but when I took it to the track I was pulling 108+ MPH when the T25 was only giving me 94+ I believe. I'll quit rambling now but I've been messing around with the FWD for years so if you have any questions feel free to email me.

[email protected]

Thanks,