freeze 12 refrigerant?

[AlphaAssault]

has anyone ever heard of or used the a/c refrigerant called freeze 12? its is supposed to be a viable substitute for both r12 and r134a, and can be used in either system without modification. its pretty cheap stuff; should i try it in my car or is that too risky?

 

[JusMX141]

Not risky in the least.

We sell it at my workplace under the name "HC12". We've been selling it for 9 years now, not a single problem. Sells for $7.49/can.

It's less corrosive than converting your system to 134a, it's lighter so the compressor requires less energy to pump it, and it's not harmful to the atmosphere. The ONLY complaint is that it doesn't cool quite as well as R12 does, but with R12 going for $20-$30 a can these days (and most R12 systems leak anyway) using R12 would get costly in a hurry.

 

[AlphaAssault]

ahh, thanks for great info. do you know if its true that you can use freeze 12 in a r12 system? im wondering because my eclipse was never converted over to r134a, so the a/c system still requires r12. well, the a/c stopped blowing cold, and needs a refill, so i was wondering if the cheaper freeze 12 would work without ANY modifications to the a/c system itself.

 

[r1991_4g63t]

Not risky in the least.

We sell it at my workplace under the name "HC12". We've been selling it for 9 years now, not a single problem. Sells for $7.49/can.

It's less corrosive than converting your system to 134a, it's lighter so the compressor requires less energy to pump it, and it's not harmful to the atmosphere. The ONLY complaint is that it doesn't cool quite as well as R12 does, but with R12 going for $20-$30 a can these days (and most R12 systems leak anyway) using R12 would get costly in a hurry.

20-30 a can? damn ill take 1000 for them prices. 60-70 last i checked around here

but yeah works good just not quite as cold as 12 but colder then 134

 

[interex]

Freeze-12 and FR12 is nothing more than 134a with an additive that makes it slightly less violently incompatible with mineral oil. Research it.

 

[JusMX141]

ahh, thanks for great info. do you know if its true that you can use freeze 12 in a r12 system? im wondering because my eclipse was never converted over to r134a, so the a/c system still requires r12. well, the a/c stopped blowing cold, and needs a refill, so i was wondering if the cheaper freeze 12 would work without ANY modifications to the a/c system itself.

Freeze 12 is a drop-in replacement for both 134A and R12, so no matter what you drive it will work.

Here's some of the techincal and MSDS info on the HC12 that we sell:
About HC-12a - HC12AUSA.com
HC-12a MSDS - HC12AUSA.com

I still use 134A in systems that specify 134A use simply because it's a little cheaper than the Freeze 12.

works good just not quite as cold as 12 but colder then 134

That's because of the compression differences in the systems. 134A systems are designed to operate at much higher pressures because the 134A molecules are more spaced apart than those of R12 freon.

Basically NOTHING you put into an R12 system will work as efficiently as the R12 freon of which is was designed to be used.

...and for what it's worth, we sold the last can of R12 our store could get last summer for $29.95.

 

[vanilla gorilla]

Why dont you just convert it to 134?

 

[JusMX141]

The hassle. To properly convert a R12 system to 134a, you must totally remove the system's oil, flush the system, refill the system with an ester or PAG oil (134a compatible), then recharge the system.

With Freeze 12, you just install a can and drive.

 

[interex]

And using Freese-12 it's hard to recover it too. Same with using 134a (Plus)

 

[AlphaAssault]

the problem i am having now is that no one around here wants to mess with HC12. the answer im getting is that, even though HC12 can be used in r12 systems, no one wants the HC12 going through their machines. im having a difficult time finding anyone who will recharge my a/c with HC12, even if i provide the refrigerant. why is this? the next step, if no one wants to mess with it, is how hard would it be to recharge the a/c by myself? i have read on the forums that it is unwise to do a/c work yourself unless you have experience.

 

[r1991_4g63t]

its easy to do but if you dont have experience DONT try it, its easy, but easy to screw up and blow yourself up.

 

[vanilla gorilla]

Seriously I'd just convert it. I sell the kit at my store with everything you need for like $35. Even comes with an instructional DVD.

 

[r1991_4g63t]

Seriously I'd just convert it. I sell the kit at my store with everything you need for like $35. Even comes with an instructional DVD.

like he said he wants to do it right, those kits have no way of sucking out the old oil, or putting the system into a vacuum before adding.

 

[vanilla gorilla]

like he said he wants to do it right, those kits have no way of sucking out the old oil, or putting the system into a vacuum before adding.

Um, the kit I sell....is the right way to do it....
Basically all it is, is some fittings, freon, oil, and hose.

But yea you still have to remove the old freon.

 

[Defiant]

like he said he wants to do it right, those kits have no way of sucking out the old oil, or putting the system into a vacuum before adding.

That big old lump of iron the AC pump is bolted to generates a helluva vacuum while it's idling.

Don't breathe the exhaust. And don't tell the branch of the police who are in charge of enforcing refrigerant, fireplace catalysts and cellphone headset laws about it.

 

[JusMX141]

the problem i am having now is that no one around here wants to mess with HC12. the answer im getting is that, even though HC12 can be used in r12 systems, no one wants the HC12 going through their machines. im having a difficult time finding anyone who will recharge my a/c with HC12, even if i provide the refrigerant. why is this? the next step, if no one wants to mess with it, is how hard would it be to recharge the a/c by myself? i have read on the forums that it is unwise to do a/c work yourself unless you have experience.

Why do you insist that someone install it at their shop? You can install HC12 in your driveway in minutes....it's easier than changing spark plugs.

- Pick up a 134A hose with gauge, like this one:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You'll also need a quick-coupler adapter to fit the low side fitting on your car. You're basically acting as if you're doing a 134A conversion- but installing the HC12 instead. The reason behind this is that the HC12 cans have a 134A screw-on fitting on the top, so R12 hoses will not fit.

- Turn the a/c on it's highest setting, make sure the airflow is set to recirculate.

- Charge the low pressure side until pressure reaches 45psi on the gauge. DO NOT charge past 45psi on the low pressure side with the a/c on max!

....and you're done!

Some shops around me charge $60 plus materials to do exactly what I just told you to do above. It literally takes 15 minutes or less. These shops just scare you into thinking you can't service the systems so you don't disassemble something that's under high pressure.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

And what of the old refrigerant?
Nice instructable though.

 

[JusMX141]

And what of the old refrigerant?

Chances are there's none left; but if there is, the HC12 mixes with either R12 or 134A.

I've installed it into many vehicles (including my own) that still had refrigerant left in the system and I had no side effects.

 

[GalantGreg]

Decided to resurect this old thread.

I found Freeze 12 at XL Parts here for $6.40 a can. A mechanic friend of mine put it in for me because he has the old style gauges. I know a lot of you guys like to just convert your system to 134a. I was talking to a lot of the old school car guys around here and they swear by the stuff. This stuff is ice cold!!