FP3052 or....?

[Clipse]

I did not want to post a thread like this, but I really need some outside opinions because I am torn. I am trying to decide between an FP3052 and a full Garrett AGP 50 trim kit. I know one is ball bearing and the other is bushing style, but they both reach full spool at about the same rpm, one cost less and one has more power potential.

I understand some people are partial to one company or the other and that's fine, please give me your input as to why you are partial to that company. Price is a factor for me, and my goals are to be competitive in my local autocross and roadrace ciruit as well as attaining low 12s/high 11's on pump.

Opinions please...

 

[unior]

well, the 50 trim will achieve your ET goals and be cheaper for just the turbo

but if you go straight garret you will need a different ex. manifold that owuld change the price of things

or, you could buy a bolt on 50 trim hybrid which would also achieve your goals and be the cheapest

 

[Ben K]

Well, I am partial to one company.

You really aren't going to make a bad decision with either turbo setup.

 

[Groomz]

I was going to recommend AGP, but I guess I'm a little late.

FP3052 is an excellent turbo, but I would choose it for roadrace and autocross more than drag racing. It really shines with its excellent transient boost response and spool time. If power is what you are really trying to make, maybe the 50 trim would be a better choice. Remember you won't be dissappointed with either turbo.

If you do go 50 trim, the AGP full Garrett kit ( with manifold, wastegate, dumptube, and everything else ) is probably the best deal. I just like the setup they offer, have read good reviews, and am planning on running in the future.

 

[Clipse]

Thanks for the quick responses. The AGP kit even with the exhaust manifold ends up being about $200 cheaper than the FP 3052, and I'm sure I wouldn't be dissapointed with either set up. Leaning towards AGP, but keep the input coming please!

Is either turbo better for daily driving?

Originally posted by Ben K
Well, I am partial to one company.

You really aren't going to make a bad decision with either turbo setup.

Just want to say thanks to both you and Kevin for being so informative and helpful when I call with any questions

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by Clipse

Is either turbo better for daily driving?

They would both spool at the same time. They both dump to the atmosphere from the wastegate, but from what I've read, neither setup is very loud ( and only happens at WOT ). I prefer to get a nice exhaust manifold and complete parts and instructions when I buy something.

Although FP does have increadible service and quality ( so does AGP ), so again its really up to you. Sorry. If I had either turbo I would be more than satisfied. Its like you've asked if you want a Ferrari or a Porsche. Both awesome, both fast, and both are very proven.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by Clipse
I did not want to post a thread like this, but I really need some outside opinions because I am torn. I am trying to decide between an FP3052 and a full Garrett AGP 50 trim kit. I know one is ball bearing and the other is bushing style, but they both reach full spool at about the same rpm, one cost less and one has more power potential.

I understand some people are partial to one company or the other and that's fine, please give me your input as to why you are partial to that company. Price is a factor for me, and my goals are to be competitive in my local autocross and roadrace ciruit as well as attaining low 12s/high 11's on pump.

Opinions please...

I have had both turbo setups you are considering. The 50 trim or the 3052 will achieve your goals easily. With proper supporting mods and tuning.

The 3052 is MUCH more responsive and drivable then a conventional bearing 50 trim. With a much larger hot side then a E50 trim using a .63 A/R hot side.

I cant agree that a 50 trim is a better drag turbo. Based on the fact the 3052 uses much more efficient and aerodynamic wheels.

That will blow most of the old t3/t4 stuff away, at high boost levels. Not to mention the FP TH is specifically designed around a 2.0L 4g63 application.

My personal opinion is at high boost levels on race gas the 3052 will destroy comparable 50 trim setups, and allow you to reach your goals without much effort.

The average guy in a full weight dsm is not going to put 10's on the board with a 50 trim or make 500whp. Thoes 50 trim accomplishments are moot. If you like agp why not buy their full Garrett setup that is similar to the fp3052?

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by jdmawd
I have had both turbo setups you are considering. The 50 trim or the 3052 will achieve your goals easily. With proper supporting mods and tuning.

The 3052 is MUCH more responsive and drivable then a conventional bearing 50 trim. With a much larger hot side then a E50 trim using a .63 A/R hot side.

I cant agree that a 50 trim is a better drag turbo. Based on the fact the 3052 uses much more efficient and aerodynamic wheels.

That will blow most of the old t3/t4 stuff away, at high boost levels. Not to mention the FP TH is specifically designed around a 2.0L 4g63 application.

My personal opinion is at high boost levels on race gas the 3052 will destroy comparable 50 trim setups, and allow you to reach your goals without much effort.

The average guy in a full weight dsm is not going to put 10's on the board with a 50 trim or make 500whp. Thoes 50 trim accomplishments are moot. If you like agp why not buy their full Garrett setup that is similar to the fp3052?

There's no "bowing down" icon, so I'll just say wow. Really well put. I completely forgot that AGP sells the BB turbo's as an option on their kits.

 

[Clipse]

Originally posted by jdmawd
I have had both turbo setups you are considering. The 50 trim or the 3052 will achieve your goals easily. With proper supporting mods and tuning.

The 3052 is MUCH more responsive and drivable then a conventional bearing 50 trim. With a much larger hot side then a E50 trim using a .63 A/R hot side.

I cant agree that a 50 trim is a better drag turbo. Based on the fact the 3052 uses much more efficient and aerodynamic wheels.

That will blow most of the old t3/t4 stuff away, at high boost levels. Not to mention the FP TH is specifically designed around a 2.0L 4g63 application.

My personal opinion is at high boost levels on race gas the 3052 will destroy comparable 50 trim setups, and allow you to reach your goals without much effort.

The average guy in a full weight dsm is not going to put 10's on the board with a 50 trim or make 500whp. Thoes 50 trim accomplishments are moot. If you like agp why not buy their full Garrett setup that is similar to the fp3052?

I have considered that and they end up being the same price. I guess my biggest concern is how much of a difference I'm going to notice between the ball bearing and standard bearing turbos when auto x-ing and road racing. It sounds like the BB is probably the better choice.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by Groomz
There's no "bowing down" icon, so I'll just say wow. Really well put. I completely forgot that AGP sells the BB turbo's as an option on their kits.

exactly.

The only reason I didn't go with the agp Full Garrett GT 52 lb/mn setup. Back in October, Is that combo was not available. You will save a ton of coin with the agp setup. I think i paid close to $3800 for everything including the dnp header and ceramic coating.

 

[Clipse]

Originally posted by jdmawd
I think i paid close to $3800 for everything including the dnp header and ceramic coating.

Damn...

They quoted me $1900 for everything except a manifold

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by jdmawd
$3800 for everything including the dnp header and ceramic coating.

There is an icon for this:

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by Clipse
Damn...

They quoted me $1900 for everything except a manifold

turbo and oil lines came to 12XX

40mm tial was 380

3" o2 450


dnp header 500

jet coating everthing came to 360


ok im worng it was more like 2890'ish

who can remember this stuff:laugh:

 

[Slappster]

For me I plan on going with FP. A big reason is they are local to me. But either way you go your gonna be happy.

 

[Clipse]

Going with the AGP kit

Thanks for all of the input

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by Clipse
Going with the AGP kit

Thanks for all of the input

Which one? Ball bearing or standard? Trim size? Lets get the details, man!

 

[Mo-Bo0st]

JDM...You are the man...I hope when I finally get my car running again and am at the point to get a bigger turbo you are around. I will definately bug you for some good input.

Thanks for making good posts that the rest of us can learn from.

 

[unior]

Originally posted by Mo-Bo0st
JDM...You are the man...I hope when I finally get my car running again and am at the point to get a bigger turbo you are around. I will definately bug you for some good input.

Thanks for making good posts that the rest of us can learn from.

you brownnosers make me laugh

 

[Clipse]

Originally posted by Groomz
Which one? Ball bearing or standard? Trim size? Lets get the details, man!

Standard bearing 50 trim. It's about $500 cheaper and will put me where I want to be.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by Clipse
Standard bearing 50 trim. It's about $500 cheaper and will put me where I want to be.

full Garrett or the rs49?

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by unior
you brownnosers make me laugh

This is not dsmtalk or the flame forum at turbofoolrums.net if you have nothing relevant to the topic to add Be out!!


Later.

 

[unior]

Originally posted by jdmawd
This is not dsmtalk or the flame forum at turbofoolrums.net if you have nothing relevant to the topic to add Be out!!


Later.

now if that wasn't the most hypocritical statement ever

 

[GSX]

Here's some decent information I posted a while ago for reference ... I think it is fairly informative for those considering a 50 trim kit even though it was a while ago.

Anyhow, kudos on your decision. As everyone has stated .. either would be tremendous selections for a fast street driven 4G63.

Originally posted by GSX
AGP Tune 'n Track Results

I've been running the AGP turbo kit on my car for about a month now, and much like DSMtuners moderator Tevenor, I have had a chance to put the turbo kit thru tests which I feel suit what a turbo / turbo kit should provide a daily driven '97 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX with street and strip goals. Below I have documented my setup, and the story of how I came to test the turbo / turbo kit. Please read, and if there are any questions please feel free.

Setup - 1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

Power Mods (Engine) -

Original 7-bolt with 75K

AGP 3" Intake Pipe
AGP T3/T4 Kit 50 Trim w/ .48 A/R
HKS 272 Intake/Exhaust Cams
NGK BPR7ES Plugs
NGK 7mm Ignition Wires
Custom 2.5"-3" Slip Fit DownPipe w/ Resonator and Apexi N1Cat-Back
Apexi Skyline FMIC w/ AGP 2.5" Short Route Piping (using HKS SSQV)

Fuel Delivery -

FIC 750cc Injectors
Walbro 255 LPH Fuel Pump
AeroMotive AFPR w/ B&M Gauge
ECMTuning DSMLink

DriveTrain -

Stock '97 AWD Transmission/Tranfer Case

JUN Lightened FlyWheel
LUK OEM Rated Clutch w/ Mitsu OEM TB

Suspension -

RM Racing Sway Bars
Eibach SportLine Lowering Springs
Tokico Illumina 5 Way Adjustable Shocks
Sprint Camber Adjustment Kits (Front/Rear)
Enkie 17x8 RPM2 Wheels
Yokohama 235/45ZR17 AVS ES100 Tires
TCE 12.2" Wilwood Brake Kit

Interior/Exterior -

Greddy Turbo Timer
Greddy 60mm P/H Boost and EGT Gauges
LoTek Dual Pillar Pod (opened to fit 60mm)
HKS Dual Port EVC-EZ Boost Controller
RM HID HeadLight Kit
VIS Carbon Fiber Hood

To The Tuning...

I had earlier missed a chance to dyno the car during a Subaru Club Day in which Dyno-Comp (dyno-comp.com)was offering 3 pulls to "Prove Your Power"

So, I decided I would book an outing with the owner Richard and drove the 118 miles the afternoon of the 21st. Well, all went well for 117 of those miles. When I exited the freeway the temp gauge shot up to the tip top and I began to panic. I managed to quickly get the car to to dyno-comp where it was wisely decided we'd let the car cool. We decided we'd check coolant levels, then compression, and go from there. Of the 2 gallons of coolant our cars take, I was missing about 1.5 of those .. so we filled it up. Next, compression numbers showed us numbers ranging from 120-144 across all for cylinders - ouch. It appears in the three years I've had this car I've been a bit hard on it, although I dismissed some of those number to the cam overlap .. we'll see right?

It was then decided we would put the car on the AWD dyno and see what we could get away with. After loading the car on the dyno, and separating and rejoining the slip fit downpipe cause the car was too low, we managed to do a pull or two. Moral of the story - first pull with street tuning at 24 psi on race gas netted me 350 whp. From there on out we continued to do back to back pulls until we hit 372 whp and 340 ft/lbs. We could only get 372 whp because the clutch would slip at anything past that.

***(Note: we were having problems setting load on the dyno, power came on much quicker than what is shown)***

I'll leave off my saying that the owner/tuner I could have made about 20-30 whp more had my clutch held as we were pulling fuel with plenty of room using the DSMLink and holding a steady 11.5:1 A/F ratio.

On To The Track...

So, I took my 372 whp to the track for the IDRC Firebird Nationals on the 22-23rd. My first practice run gave me a 12.3 with those same clutch issues. I waited a few more hours and made my first qualifying run which netted a 12.6 with even more clutch slippage (if that were possible). I decided to skip my 2nd and 3rd qualifying runs in hopes that my clutch would come back to its former life on Sunday for the 4th and final qualifying run.

Come Sunday, I felt like less launch and a tad bit less boost was the answer - it wasn't. The clutch held but a 2.2 60' time and bad drivnig netted me a 13.2. So, I played the waiting game. With some luck I made the Street 8 class at IDRC as the number 8 qualifier. The class consisted of 3 RX7.com cars, 2 supras, the Easy Street WRX, an 11.5 Dodge Stealth, and myself.

First round, Ari Yallon and myself .. to finish the story quickly my clutch did a decent job holding together and I wound up with the numbers below - I lost of course to a 10.0 by Ari.

R/T .730
60' 1.666
330 4.983
1/8 7.690
MPH 92.52
1000 9.961
1/4 11.918
MPH 115.78 ----> Link To TimeSlip

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Finally, for all that want the street story of the turbo .. this turbo is street driven on Arizona 91 octane gas. I can generally manage to tune the car to about 18-20 psi for street use. As for spool, 20psi usually has be building boost at about 2.5K with full boost delivered somewhere between 3500 and 3700 RPM. So, great turbo for tuning, track, and street.

Again, please feel free to ask any questions of me .. I'd like to help if possible. Thanks.

 

[Groomz]

Nice post GSX. Lots of good info. Are you running a new clutch now, and if so, have you returned to the dyno?

 

[Clipse]

Originally posted by GSX
Here's some decent information I posted a while ago for reference ... I think it is fairly informative for those considering a 50 trim kit even though it was a while ago.

Anyhow, kudos on your decision. As everyone has stated .. either would be tremendous selections for a fast street driven 4G63.

Thank you! That was very reassuring to hear. What size wheel were you running?