Dumbest things you've heard a DSMer say? :)

[awdtalon4451]

Point is very valid. Though, not too many people would know what a T-25 is because they're all too busy fantasizing about boosting their hondas with 60-trim turbos.

Youd be suprised how many people know of this turbo. Also im not huge fan of Honda as far as "fast" goes, but lately some boys around here have been laying it down in the Hondas.
Point is gotta give credit where its due, and if you ever run across a Honda tucking a 60-1 better cross your T's and dot your I's

 

[undefined0000]

Youd be suprised how many people know of this turbo. Also im not huge fan of Honda as far as "fast" goes, but lately some boys around here have been laying it down in the Hondas.
Point is gotta give credit where its due, and if you ever run across a Honda tucking a 60-1 better cross your T's and dot your I's

I would honestly probably go running for the hills. I just haven't met one yet. Would really love to.

 

[awdtalon4451]

I would honestly probably go running for the hills. I just haven't met one yet. Would really love to.

I had a buddy that had a 60-1 on a built crx that was insane fast on the interstate. He could never hook off the line though

 

[Cdc1221]

Lol just better hope they never figure out an easy way to do an awd conversion. And ill say, if one of those honda punks can get his car running on a to4e or 60-1 without blowing it up within the week, id say he probably has a little more than a basic understanding of airflow. The same cannot be said of more than a few dsmers out there .

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Hopefully next drag season there won't many cars left to worry about for me. My brother is a honda guy. Not so much now with a family and all but he built a turbo b18 in his eg6 then built a high comp b20. He told me the head is where honda makes its power. Told me you can get 100+ hp out of a head in port work.

So if you hear someone tell you port work doesn't matter much, don't take their comments on it as too knowledgeable. Port work matters alot force fed or not.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Most of my clients running the new L15 motors in the Honda Fits are picking up 60-70whp and upwards of 75wtq running only 5-6psi on .48A/R and .63A/R T25 flanged GT25s

Another one overseas using a GT2860RS in a small T3 housing and a log manifold saw 300whp on only 17psi with pump gas and a single small meth nozzle.

This is with an undersized intercooler, 2" piping, recirculated internal gate (5-bolt discharge) and a 60mm full exhaust pipe with muffler and cat. Not exactly optimal either.

This is on a platform that makes 85-90whp stock out of a 1.5L. Most of them are sticking to the stock cam and stock 6600rpm redline too.

The Honda cylinder heads are light-years ahead of ours, at least in my opinion.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Well ours only did last ten years. What about the evo9(since that was the last 4g made) head against the hondas in your opinion?

 

[1990AWD]

Mitsubishi never really did have to optimize the cylinder head since ours always came boosted, unlike Hondas. Hondas also the one dumb enough to cast the exhaust manifold into some of the cylinder heads though too.

You want real port work though, F1 is where it's at. 750hp from a 2.4L n/a.

 

[gst noob]

i bought a gsx part car from a guy and he went on to tell me he used to have a chevy cavalier bored .90 over with a 200mm turbo!

 

[Cdc1221]

^ how in the hell? It must rev to 20k.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Well ours only did last ten years. What about the evo9(since that was the last 4g made) head against the hondas in your opinion?

Don't know enough about the MIVEC heads to comment honestly. They do have the ability to phase the cams, similar to VTEC so that would help considerably compared to our head I would have to imagine.

As far as the casting goes on a MIVEC 4G63 vs. Say a K20A or F20C Honda, I would be curious to see more testing.

I've seen numbers floated around like:

K20A @ 28inHg Vac - 310 @ .500" lift
F20C @ 28inHg Vac - 320 @ .500" lift

Both of which sound high.

Versus a published test on Tuners (having difficulty finding the link) of a worked 1G DSM head under the same conditions with a 4L plenum and 5" stacks flowing just shy of 335 @ .500"

Most of the testing I've come across does not support this though, like the results posted here:
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#MITSUBISHI

Even the best 1G head work netted low 290cfm

The only 4G head that comes close and actually hit that 335cfm figure was a worked Cosworth Evo head.

If there is truth to that, it may be the low lift flow where the Honda heads really shine.

Edit: Here is the link to the 1G head testing - From Polk:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/16920-1g-head-flow-numbers-intake-designs-long.html

Mitsubishi never really did have to optimize the cylinder head since ours always came boosted, unlike Hondas. Hondas also the one dumb enough to cast the exhaust manifold into some of the cylinder heads though too.

You want real port work though, F1 is where it's at. 750hp from a 2.4L n/a.

The L15A7 on the newer generation Fit is like that. Pretty much dictates the power curve having the "runner" length, shape and cross-section/diameter being decided for you.

2.4 V8 F1 Motors are relying on high rpm to make those figures.

A crazy cam matched with pulse tuned manifolds to sort out the challenge of evacuating the cylinder at 18k rpm and pneumatic valve "springs" are employed to avoid float because they don't have the resonance issues that metal coils do.

Desmodromic valvetrain could do it, but they have wear issues.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Yeah i was actually just looking at that flow thread but the format on tapatalk is fubar. It was hurting my brain trying to figure the numbers all bunched together. So i'll have to check it out later.

I've heard kiggly got mivec cam/cams to work in a dsm. Is this true? I've been thinking it would be possible. And why do ppl use the evo 8 ecu? Is the 9 not compatible at all?

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Guy once told me that he is running 10.5:1 pistons and 28 psi on a 16g....which he claimed was a 20g. This was before the days of E85.

 

[Nicklepage1010]

A guy i work with owns a new wrx.
Constantly asks to "Linem-up"
Evidently my car backfired.
Now he THINKS i have "Nos"
He no longer asks me to "Linem-up"

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Guy once told me that he is running 10.5:1 pistons and 28 psi on a 16g....which he claimed was a 20g. This was before the days of E85.

How do you know he wasn't? They have bastard 20gs that look like a 16 and use a j pipe. Did he say something about pump gas or no?

 

[WES_393]

Not a DSMer, and not really what he said.... I'll just explain the story.

A buddy of mine has a 1st gen Celica All-trac. Pretty stout little boosted 4-banger (3S-GTE). I tried to talk him into a 1g DSM, but another buddy of ours has a 500hp 6th gen so naturally he went with the Celica (big effing mistake!). They're so rare and expensive, he could only find one with problems. Smoked like a chimney so (instead of bringing it by my shop) he dumped it off with a self-proclaimed "mechanic" he met at the local ricer meets. Dude botches the head gasket, doesn't even noticed the valve stem seals are completely missing, and charges him $1500 for the work.

I've been helping him clean up the botched head gasket. Came to find it had ARP head studs and JE pistons on unknown brand forged rods. However, cylinder 3 had obvious signs that the piston had chewed on a valve at some point. I was more concerned about the obvious detonation damage around the valve cuts. But he wasn't concerned it was an issue. We spent weeks getting everything back together, burning hundreds of dollars in propane with my warehouse heater, just to have it still smoke like crazy. He's sitting there scratching his head as to why it smokes, so I pull the spark plug wire from cylinder 3. Instantly stops smoking.

He says he only has $2k to work with, so I explain that with my connections at a local machine shop, mixed with my experience assembling engines, we could get his bottom end rebuilt with Wiseco pistons for $1K max. The car could be up and running for $1500 max. So what does he do? He buys a JDM Caldina front clip for $1,950. The car is 20 years newer, has a completely different ignition system, transmission, drivetrain, etc. It's the equivalent of trying to put an Evo X 4B11 engine/trans into a 1g DSM. He'll also have zero help from the forums since the Celica community can't even count threads let alone figure out an engine swap.

Needless to say, I'm not helping him anymore. He burned his bridge. Dude is picking up his car this week and taking it to his own garage. Which has a socket set and floor jack. The guy is a good friend of mine, but all I have to say is good f***ing luck!

 

[NHerron]

Yup I had friends just like that haha. You could explain it enough you'd think a monkey would get it, but still no dice, they just choose not to listen..

 

[n0de]

Not a DSMer, and not really what he said.... I'll just explain the story.

A buddy of mine has a 1st gen Celica All-trac. Pretty stout little boosted 4-banger (3S-GTE). I tried to talk him into a 1g DSM, but another buddy of ours has a 500hp 6th gen so naturally he went with the Celica (big effing mistake!). They're so rare and expensive, he could only find one with problems. Smoked like a chimney so (instead of bringing it by my shop) he dumped it off with a self-proclaimed "mechanic" he met at the local ricer meets. Dude botches the head gasket, doesn't even noticed the valve stem seals are completely missing, and charges him $1500 for the work.

I've been helping him clean up the botched head gasket. Came to find it had ARP head studs and JE pistons on unknown brand forged rods. However, cylinder 3 had obvious signs that the piston had chewed on a valve at some point. I was more concerned about the obvious detonation damage around the valve cuts. But he wasn't concerned it was an issue. We spent weeks getting everything back together, burning hundreds of dollars in propane with my warehouse heater, just to have it still smoke like crazy. He's sitting there scratching his head as to why it smokes, so I pull the spark plug wire from cylinder 3. Instantly stops smoking.

He says he only has $2k to work with, so I explain that with my connections at a local machine shop, mixed with my experience assembling engines, we could get his bottom end rebuilt with Wiseco pistons for $1K max. The car could be up and running for $1500 max. So what does he do? He buys a JDM Caldina front clip for $1,950. The car is 20 years newer, has a completely different ignition system, transmission, drivetrain, etc. It's the equivalent of trying to put an Evo X 4B11 engine/trans into a 1g DSM. He'll also have zero help from the forums since the Celica community can't even count threads let alone figure out an engine swap.

Needless to say, I'm not helping him anymore. He burned his bridge. Dude is picking up his car this week and taking it to his own garage. Which has a socket set and floor jack. The guy is a good friend of mine, but all I have to say is good f***ing luck!

I know the type of person too. Its just sad when you help someone and have to practically beg them to take a sweet deal for their own benefit, then they do the opposite and get nowhere.

 

[GofaST4life]

Not a DSMer, and not really what he said.... I'll just explain the story.

A buddy of mine has a 1st gen Celica All-trac. Pretty stout little boosted 4-banger (3S-GTE). I tried to talk him into a 1g DSM, but another buddy of ours has a 500hp 6th gen so naturally he went with the Celica (big effing mistake!). They're so rare and expensive, he could only find one with problems. Smoked like a chimney so (instead of bringing it by my shop) he dumped it off with a self-proclaimed "mechanic" he met at the local ricer meets. Dude botches the head gasket, doesn't even noticed the valve stem seals are completely missing, and charges him $1500 for the work.

I've been helping him clean up the botched head gasket. Came to find it had ARP head studs and JE pistons on unknown brand forged rods. However, cylinder 3 had obvious signs that the piston had chewed on a valve at some point. I was more concerned about the obvious detonation damage around the valve cuts. But he wasn't concerned it was an issue. We spent weeks getting everything back together, burning hundreds of dollars in propane with my warehouse heater, just to have it still smoke like crazy. He's sitting there scratching his head as to why it smokes, so I pull the spark plug wire from cylinder 3. Instantly stops smoking.

He says he only has $2k to work with, so I explain that with my connections at a local machine shop, mixed with my experience assembling engines, we could get his bottom end rebuilt with Wiseco pistons for $1K max. The car could be up and running for $1500 max. So what does he do? He buys a JDM Caldina front clip for $1,950. The car is 20 years newer, has a completely different ignition system, transmission, drivetrain, etc. It's the equivalent of trying to put an Evo X 4B11 engine/trans into a 1g DSM. He'll also have zero help from the forums since the Celica community can't even count threads let alone figure out an engine swap.

Needless to say, I'm not helping him anymore. He burned his bridge. Dude is picking up his car this week and taking it to his own garage. Which has a socket set and floor jack. The guy is a good friend of mine, but all I have to say is good f***ing luck!

That's a horrid story! Some people these days, ill never get it. People need to use their heads.

But I wouldn't knock the Celica community, especially overseas. When I had my AllTrac, I found tons of info/help/advice on the alltrac.net forum. And those 3SGTE motors are real beasts. Wish I still had mine.

 

[crash89]

Old roommate of mine was like that.. I actually bought my spyder from him back in 08 after he bought a GSX..(which was sold. bar far a different story to tell) He bought this red 97 GSX roller, pretty damn clean, minus the interior was pretty worn no big.. Told him Id help him build a motor so he'd have a nice running car, had a spare block laying around that I told him he could HAVE! Told him he needed to have it at least honed, he didnt.. Hes the kind of guy that likes to start things then quit when theres the slightest hiccup. I told him I'd help him if he bought EVERYTHING we needed to put this motor together and we would do it in a weekend.. I made a list for him of my suggested things to buy. Turns out he pretty much cheaped out on most of the parts. Thought, oh well not my motor, he will learn..

So, time finally comes to put this motor together. Mind you he still hadnt gotten the block machined, said #### it itll be fine. I said alright... This is when I find out most of the things he bought werent quality parts.. Some random rebuild kit (probably Ebay) knockoff BSE, ect ect. Probably the only good parts he got was an ACT2100 and ARP studs. Put this motor together and get it in. Turns out we had the wrong starter plate, he couldnt get the starter in the trans.. "well can I just drill the holes out?" I mean you COULD but it still isnt going to work, take the trans out and swap the plates.. Car sat for a week or so, finally I changed it in like 20 minutes..

Told him what oil to use, break in procedure all that jazz.. Wake up one morning hearing him crank and crank and crank and crank and crank.. WTF are you doing!?!?! "this ####ing thing wont start" He was cranking for a good 10 minutes from what heard, straight. I said If it hasnt started in the first few cranks its NOT GOING TO START!!! (turns out it had link so the plug wires needed to be swapped, Boom started right up.. Took it down the road and back.. blows up.. Oil pump seized.. He bought the knockoff BSE with no oil groove.. Then was all pissed off at it.. Really man?? 0_o

This was after it blew up and was trying to sell it..

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[LandSpeed-DSM]

That person is the definition of an "Askhole"

 

[necrotopsy]

internet idiots...

Him-"you can't put a gt35 on an eclipse, those are the stock skyline turbo's"
Me- "what? the gt35 is made by garret. It's an aftermarket turbo. and yes you can put one on a DSM."
Him- "the eclipse came with a td05"
Me- "depending on which, they came with 14b or 13b turbos. tdo5 is what's stamped on the compressor."
Him-"What do you mean? they are the same turbo on the evo."
Me- "no. depending on which evo you're talking about, those came with a 16g."
Him- " but they had the same turbo, and it doesn't matter, you can't put a gt35 on an eclipse."
Me- "As long as you have a manifold that supports it, you can put a gt35 on a DSM. It's been done a bunch of times, it's not rocket science. And the evo has a bigger turbo from the factory. they weren't the same. People put an evo 16g on DSM's quite often, but they don't come that way stock." (and supporting fuel mods, but i didn't say that, i was more talking about being able to physically put a gt35 on a DSM)
Him- "whatever man, you don't know what you're talking about."

after that i just pretty much was dumbfounded by this guy and left him alone.
he claimed to have owned a GST, started talking about his car, i made a joke about going for a gt35r and that's how this started.

 

[undefined0000]

I have conversations like that all too often. Only one thing though. Its the 13g not 13b

 

[WES_393]

I had a conversation like that recently. This guy is a professional tuner at a local dyno shop (one with a seriously decreasing reputation). He tried to tell my buddy his PTE 6262 will never make over 600hp. I politely called him a complete moron, and was sure to post videos of an Evo and a DSM making far behind that with a 6262.

He claimed the videos were lies. The Evo must be somehow faking the HP numbers. And he seriously tried to tell me Talon's (not DSM's) physically couldn't run over 25psi. He couldn't tell me why, or 25psi on what turbo, or if Eclipses could do it. He just knew that 25psi wouldn't work, which he knows because he tunes them everyday.

Oh, how I wish I could remember the name of the shop for those in Colorado. It was something like Spinning's, or Rotation's, or maybe it was *cough* Revolution's? Either way, it's a buncha Scooby/Honduh lovers who don't take anything else seriously.

 

[undefined0000]

I would really like to know where all of this DSM hate comes from. YES our cars break, but DSMs aren't the only cars that break. I'm also fairly certain mitsu intended for us to be doing all of this to our cars, not to save gas like the honduhs.