Cyclone intake/motor

[ho chi inn]

Originally posted by tsi_turboawd
My mechanic says all I would need to get the cyclone butterflies open at a certain boost is a PRESSURE SOLENOID. does that sound correct?

.. he really wants to get the cyclone to work. =)

the butterflies are normally open. as in wot mode. how are you going to keep them closed? the jdm system uses engine vacuum, it's free. i guess you could use some sort of a vacuum resevoir, with an electric pump to maintain vacuum, but if you just use straight engine vacuum, it will not work, the vacuum varies too much, and the actuator will be opening and closing all the time. you need it to stay closed until boost is made.

 

[beekbuttons]

If you're using a smaller turbo, the Cyclone manifold seems to help the performance of the car, probably like a 2G manifold would, although the ports are matched perfectly to the 1G head. Is it worth buying seperately to try it? Probably not. Is it worth trying if you have it and your just inclined to try it? Sure. Will it fit with the US AC compressor back there? Not without modifications, it won't.

Will it work as Mitsu intended without the correct ECU, vacuum canister, and actuation solenoid? Nope. Will it "work" with just a vacuum line? The car will run, yes. Some cars run pretty well with it set up like this, but no, it's not working as Mitsu intended it to, and Sean is right, the valves won't be held entirely closed like Mitsu intended.

 

[ho chi inn]

Originally posted by beekbuttons
If you're using a smaller turbo, the Cyclone manifold seems to help the performance of the car, probably like a 2G manifold would, although the ports are matched perfectly to the 1G head. Is it worth buying seperately to try it? Probably not. Is it worth trying if you have it and your just inclined to try it? Sure. Will it fit with the US AC compressor back there? Not without modifications, it won't.

Will it work as Mitsu intended without the correct ECU, vacuum canister, and actuation solenoid? Nope. Will it "work" with just a vacuum line? The car will run, yes. Some cars run pretty well with it set up like this, but no, it's not working as Mitsu intended it to, and Sean is right, the valves won't be held entirely closed like Mitsu intended.

have you installed one on your car? probably not. did you get the butterfiles to operate correctly? probably not. anyone who has the cyclone operating correctly KNOWS you cannot just hook it up to intake vaccum and expect it to work. the butterflies have to stay closed a lot longer, and without the vacuum resevoir, there is no way to keep vacuum on the butterflies. on my car, the butterflies stay closed till i get 4-6 lbs boost. the system works perfectly. i can change what level of boost they open with the turn of an allen key. i can see what level they open by a vacuum/boost gauge. another one of the many ignorant posts about use and operation of the cyclone. one of the faster galants in the us is using a halltech to control his.

 

[SOURCE1064]

Originally posted by ho chi inn


have you installed one on your car? probably not. did you get the butterfiles to operate correctly? probably not. anyone who has the cyclone operating correctly KNOWS you cannot just hook it up to intake vaccum and expect it to work. the butterflies have to stay closed a lot longer, and without the vacuum resevoir, there is no way to keep vacuum on the butterflies. on my car, the butterflies stay closed till i get 4-6 lbs boost. the system works perfectly. i can change what level of boost they open with the turn of an allen key. i can see what level they open by a vacuum/boost gauge. another one of the many ignorant posts about use and operation of the cyclone. one of the faster galants in the us is using a halltech to control his.

Dude now you're questioning the wrong guy. That article that I cited which the cyclone manifold was tested, his name appears at the bottom of it. Do you have an 11s dsm? Probably not, he has 2 VR4’s which are and one is his daily driver.

 

[beekbuttons]

Originally posted by ho chi inn


have you installed one on your car? probably not. did you get the butterfiles to operate correctly? probably not. anyone who has the cyclone operating correctly KNOWS you cannot just hook it up to intake vaccum and expect it to work. the butterflies have to stay closed a lot longer, and without the vacuum resevoir, there is no way to keep vacuum on the butterflies. on my car, the butterflies stay closed till i get 4-6 lbs boost. the system works perfectly. i can change what level of boost they open with the turn of an allen key. i can see what level they open by a vacuum/boost gauge. another one of the many ignorant posts about use and operation of the cyclone. one of the faster galants in the us is using a halltech to control his.

Did you even read what I wrote? It doesn't sound like it. I said that it would NOT work like Mitsu intended it to unless you had all of the Mitsu hardware. I said that the car would RUN without that hardware, and that the butterflies would *sort of* do their job, but not entirely.

As for whether I've ever installed one on my car, as a matter of fact, I've installed a number of them. Mainly I tried it just because I was curious. I tried it with it set up a number of different ways, including the vacuum canister and the solenoid for correct actuation. In the end, I found that it did seem to spool quicker than a normal 1G intake manifold even without the correct ECU, canister, and solenoid. Was it working exactly as Mitsu had intended? Nope, but you know what? The "halltech" user that you're referring to doesn't exactly have it set up the way Mitsu intended, does he?

 

[umiami80]

I am real curious to see how this turns out.


Can you just bolt it on and leave it open so it will flow high boost if you do not want to hook up the butterfly system? I mean can you just keep it flowing to its maximum potential all teh time? I want to try to get it to work but if I can't, can I just open it up?

 

[rubbersidedown]

Originally posted by beekbuttons
... Nope, but you know what? The "halltech" user that you're referring to doesn't exactly have it set up the way Mitsu intended, does he?

If i'm not mistaken you were originally argueing that it would not work as mitsu intended... and now you're saying, "ok it works, but its not set up as mitsu intended.". Who cares if its set up as mitsu intended or not? As long as it works properly then who the hell cares? Just because EVERYONE isn't doing it and people have varying results doesn't mean that the manifold is crap. Even though you have personal experience in installing these manifolds it still doesn't mean that the results you've encountered are going to be consisten with everyone elses. There apparently isn't enough hard facts and numbers either way, so a comparison cannot be made to come up with any sort of explanation one way or the other. All this arguing is going nowhere.

 

[beekbuttons]

Originally posted by rubbersidedown


If i'm not mistaken you were originally argueing that it would not work as mitsu intended... and now you're saying, "ok it works, but its not set up as mitsu intended.". Who cares if its set up as mitsu intended or not? As long as it works properly then who the hell cares? Just because EVERYONE isn't doing it and people have varying results doesn't mean that the manifold is crap. Even though you have personal experience in installing these manifolds it still doesn't mean that the results you've encountered are going to be consisten with everyone elses.

I argued that if not hooked up with way Mitsu intended, the manifold won't work the way Mitsu intended. I didn't say it wouldn't work at all, I said it wouldn't work as Mitsu intended it to. I also didn't say that it's junk, the manifold has its place. I got into this thread because someone stated that unless it WAS hooked up the way Mitsu intended, that it wouldn't work well at all, which I don't feel to be true, based on results from testing it both on one of my own cars and someone else's. As for whether the results I encountered being consistent with someone else's, I can pretty much promise you that if you configure it any of the ways that I've tried it (both with and without the vacuum canister, for example) you are going to get the same result that I did. Your car is going to make vacuum when it's cruising along just like mine does, and when the actuator sees a certain amount of pressure (and I'm assuming that all of the actuators are calibrated the same) it's going to open when it sees a certain amount of positive pressure.

 

[rubbersidedown]

quote:
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Originally posted by beekbuttons
... Nope, but you know what? The "halltech" user that you're referring to doesn't exactly have it set up the way Mitsu intended, does he?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well it apparently the person w/ the haltech has gotten it to work the way mitsu intended and according to the quote, you don't deny it. You only say it wasn't set up the way it was intended. So i don't know what the need for your explanation was. I still stand by what i said.

 

[beekbuttons]

The way Mitsu intended the Cyclone to be used requires a few things. First, the vacuum canister. Second, the proper routing of vacuum lines. Third, the correct solenoid for actuation. Fourth, an ECU set up to run this solenoid. Since the Haltech user (Scott Evans, a DAMN smart individual, by the way) doesn't have a factory ECU anymore, I'm sure he's altered when (meaning under which circumstances) the Cyclone butterflies are actuated, since he has the ability to do so. I'm not positive that he even has the solenoid or the vacuum canister even in the system, since I believe he said something one time about actuating the butterflies via an electronic switch, completely eliminating the vacuum lines and vacuum canister. This would fall under my blanket statement about him not having it configured the way Mitsu intended.

Maybe what you don't see is that we're both arguing the same point, to some extent. I'm arguing that it will aid performance in some cases, even if it's not configured as Mitsu intended, but that no, it won't operate exactly how Mitsu wanted it to unless you configured it exactly as they did.