Cryogenic Part Treatments [Merged 6-8] cryo treatment

[knighteclipse1]

Seems like this could be another endless debate, with alot of opinions floating around here. I'm of the opinion that Cryo treating things such as clutch or brakes would be of great use. Not so sure that if there is a performance gain to be had in engine internals would be worth the cost, at least for the average person on this site.

 

[snox135]

Agreed, for the average person it is not worth it. But for those who are pushing a lot of hp I think it is for a reliability stand point. With what we are doing we don't need every little last bit of performance from our motors. For people racing that have strict guide lines on what there motors can and can not have, it will give you that little bit extra.

 

[nightspeed87]

Cryotreating is worth it if its done properly and if your trying to take your car to insane levels, but I agree with everyone else its not worth it on a street car especially with how durable these engines are. But as a side note Ive done cryotreating before and know of someone whos had a cryotreated forged engine and that motor went thru all kinds of hell i mean maxing out the amount of knock a logger can show per pull and it still lives. Also a guy with a 843 whp cryotreated supra engine and thats on stock internals...
I dont know. Perhaps id be more worth it to do it on a honda were the internals are finicky to begin with.

 

[interex]

Have you had your 2G block, crank, rods, pistons, rings cryogenically treated? I'm looking to see who all has had this done, what you paid, and if you've noticed any increase in the life of your parts, the strength in your block/crank, and the life of your piston rings. There is a company just north of me here in IL called 300 Below, and they do these treatments. The guy I spoke with told me that they have treated a few 2G engines for people who were concerned of the possibility of the overly rated crankwalk issue. I told the guy I was looking to treat my engine to a 300 below 0 cryo treatment and he told me they could do my entire engine for $450. That would include EVERYTHING. Now if this is worth it or not is beyond me but right now I'm just looking to see what those who have had it done think about it. I know FFWD does this but I've yet to hear back from them about it. Also I know a few people have said that the treatment on the 2G block could even be bad because the structure of the alloys are unknown. I have read a few other people state that the 2G block is strong as it is but after reading a story on here about a "Crankwalk Fix" where NosLaser explained that they found there to be .0025-.003" play/movement on the main bearings AFTER putting the head on to factory torque specs. Now if I go and bolt my crank into my block and then bolt on my head and there is .0025-.003" movement in the bearings that has to mean the block is not as strong as people claim. I think that by doing a cryogenic treatment on the block will help harden the metal of the block to possibly make it more solid and prevent movement in the metals when torquing things down. NosLaser explained that the head or a torque plate should be bolted to the block before the crank is installed to help prevent movement/play in the bearings. But again this could all be theory.

What do you think?

 

[interex]

Well yes I know that... This is in regard to the engine only. I want to know if anyone has noticed a difference when doing this to a 2G block.

 

[wt71gas]

Given that FFWD cryo's DSM motor parts, I'd always wondered about this too, so I did some research into how cryo'ing parts could do more than improve durability, in other words, make more power. How about these excerpts relating to making power?

"Treating the block and piston rings helps assure better ring sealing, which raises torque...Treating the block also reduces distortion of the block during machining and running...Cryogenic Processing reduces wear in the valve train. This assures the valve timing remains constant...Pistons resist detonation longer when treated, and also distort less in use...Piston rings seal better...Cylinder heads resist detonation better."​

Here's some interesting data on who uses cryo.

There are thousands of references online about cryo being used in all levels of racing, and more than a few point to making more power as a result.

A lot of this information is correct and there is a lot of other information in this thread that is incorrect or just assumptions. We now perform cryogenic processing in house because we found it had such huge benefits to a lot of different parts and materials.

We also race a 360 cubic inch chevy sprint car and the engine used to be freshened every 14 races or so. Usually just new bearings, rings, and stuff like that but occasionally you will need a set of pistons or something else too. This was a huge cost for us. We had one of our engines cryo treated before we were doing it ourselves and we put it back together with the newly treated parts. At the usual 14 races we pulled the motor apart and to our delight everything still looked very good and almost too new for us to believe. We put another set of cryo treated bearings and rings back into the motor just for good measure. Anyways, we now run our engines the entire season which is about 30-35 races during the year and even after that they still look good. I don't know how any of the 4g63 builds look that have gone through the process because I have not had one fail yet. We have many parts including engines, brakes, transmission, transfer case, clutch's, and even spark plugs. For the price it is absolutely well worth it. We would charge $400 for a complete engine and $200 for the rotating assembly only.

Also, on a side note the parts NEVER come into contact with the liquid nitrogen as that would cause stresses in the material and weaken it. It is suspended above a pool of liquid nitrogen allowing it to maintain about -320 degrees which does make a difference over some others that can only achieve -300 or -310.