Coolant gone. . . but to where. . .

[zero97tsi]

Hey, obviously new here, and Ive run into my first real problem since getting my Tsi about 2 weeks ago.

After changing the oil me and a friend went to get some food and when we got to Subway (eat fresh) I noticed my temp gauge was maxed out. so I got it home, and heard the sound of boiling water in the overflow tank but it wasnt boiling water, it was outrageously hot air blowing into the water that was in the tank.

So I checked the oil, still clear, still just oil. there was no coolant to check so I filled the coolant system, ran it watched it, cant see any brown or filth of any kind. however the system is getting air in it, a tiny bit. At the mouth where the cap goes air flow out of the tube, from the engine side, not the rad side.

So with clean oil, clean coolant, the only descision ive come to is that my coolant is just leaving.

Im gonna try a compression check, but like I said the oil and the water stay clear as crystal so unless my engine runs cleaner than a surgery room, I cant see it being the HG.

Any ideas?

 

[LaN-]

Excuse any noobism, Im very new to all this cool new car stuff, but what is a FIAV, and why do we want to melt a wax pellet in it?

FIAV - Fast idle air valve

Its basically an air bypass for when the engine is cold.

The wax that he is talking about seals/opens a small air passage way.

Think of it like this. When the engine is cold and coolant isn't very hot the wax is solid causing a small opening in the thottle body allowing more air to get into the engine to help is heat up faster. Once the coolant gets hot enough it melts the wax and that air passage way closes.

 

[Ravenous]

I don't have any coolant on my carpet or anything, however I know that it is my heater core cause when I first start driving it sounds like I have a jug of water sloshing around up front. You'd probably notice that but just thought it might help.

 

[zero97tsi]

Would it be acceptable to take the upper hose off and block off the engine outlet and pressurize it with something like the at home boost leak tester? or does it have to be done a specific way?

 

[LaN-]

are you still smoking out your exhaust?

If you drain all the coolant you should be able to pressure test it. I wouldn't go to high, but it should work. I've never done this so i'm not sure.

 

[zero97tsi]

Yea, Im going to use my little slime tire repair kit, its got a psi gauge on it so Ill just bring it to a low psi and see if it holds.

 

[LaN-]

Yea, Im going to use my little slime tire repair kit, its got a psi gauge on it so Ill just bring it to a low psi and see if it holds.

Yea your car is smoking? You've got to break things down here and be more descriptive.

If your car is smoking thats your problem. Its either your head gasket or turbo. Pull your plugs and let me know how they look. If they are white with speckles then your burning coolant. If they look all nasty then your burning oil.

Don't even bother with the pressure test until you figure out the smoke issue.

 

[zero97tsi]

Yea your car is smoking? You've got to break things down here and be more descriptive.

If your car is smoking thats your problem. Its either your head gasket or turbo. Pull your plugs and let me know how they look. If they are white with speckles then your burning coolant. If they look all nasty then your burning oil.

Don't even bother with the pressure test until you figure out the smoke issue.

Yes, it smokes. Its white smoke, I didnt really look to hard because I didnt know, but I believe that yes, they were white and speckled. They werent oiled, I know what that looks like. Ill look closer when I get home but Im sure they where.

As far as the head gasket goes I pressure checked all 4 cylinders and each one held at 180. I already tried pressurizing the coolant system and I got it up to 8 PSI and used a piece of garden hose to listen inside the cylinder with the plugs out for any noise and its dead silent in the cylinder, so Im really thinking its not a headgsket problem, I feel with the pressure and the no noise Ive removed that as a possible cause.

The coolant does bubble at the cap, coming from the direction of the engine. Its not a heavy bubbling, not like boiling, its a tiny foaming, like the air is being forced through a pin hole.

Last night I was checking out the TB and it actually looked kind of wet on the bottom where the gunk build up is, and there are a couple clean streaks where the tb meets the intake manifold.

Also Im leaning toward the TB because the bubbleing really only starts when the engine gets warm, so I wonder if its leaking where that wax is or? I guess Im not sure how that whole thing works but... , Im running out of options and getting pretty pissed that Ive only had 4 days out of 18 to drive my brand new car that Ive been wanting since I was 17.

 

[zero97tsi]

Well, it turns out that they arent white with spots, In fact there is no sign of coolant whatsoever. Grrr, I suppose my next step is the turbo.

Would it be safe to idle the car with the coolant pipes bypassing the turbo to see if that stops the bubbling?

 

[ZmanIV]

So I went and bought myself a compression tester. All 4 cylinders read 180 exactly.

So now Im back to the begining. Coolant leaves and I dont know to where.

Do you think maybe into the turbo? Like I said in the last thread My exhaust pumps some white smoke so SOMETHING was getting in there. . . and the coolant WAS bubbling.

Im gonna go out and check under carpet, but it doesnt smell in the car even with the vents open.

Any other ideas?

I still vote for blown HG.
bubbles in the coolant equal gasses being introduced into the water system.
Unless he did not burp the system to get out all the initial trapped air.

 

[VicBoost]

White smoke = coolant into combustion chamber or turbo. Using a coolant system pressure tester will help you find it.

Where would you get this?

 

[zero97tsi]

I think Im going to bring the turd to a shop tommorow. Im tired of dicking around with the damn thing. I decided to take off the intake piping after the turbo (read:SMIC piping) and there is some sort of sludge on the bottom of it. I guess it could be some ####ed up version of oil mixed with coolant. either way I want to drive my damn car so I think Ill just take it in.

 

[ZmanIV]

That sludge is just the oil venting into the intake track. That is what the catch cans are for. keeps all that sludge from coating the inside of your intercooler.

It should look like chocolate milk that is normal.

 

[LaN-]

i don't mean to be rude or anything, but i think taking it to a shop would be the best idea. You want to learn, but what your currently dealing with may be out of your realm (currently).

I'd rahter see you fork out some cash to get this fixed instead of blowing up your car. And you should learn a lot in the process so its a win win.

 

[ZmanIV]

i don't mean to be rude or anything, but i think taking it to a shop would be the best idea. You want to learn, but what your currently dealing with may be out of your realm (currently).

I'd rahter see you fork out some cash to get this fixed instead of blowing up your car. And you should learn a lot in the process so its a win win.

Wow that is really bad advice. How is this person going to learn anything if he just takes it to a garage.

 

[luv2rallye]

White smoke = coolant into combustion chamber or turbo. Using a coolant system pressure tester will help you find it.

Where would you get this?

Purchase at Sears or most auto stores, or rent at auto rental tools store, or have it done at any auto repair shop. It attaches to the radiator (via replacing the cap or overflow bottle if no cap) and consists of a psi guage and hand pump. You pump up to normal radiator cap pressure and watch for leaks or drops in pressure.
http://forums.audiworld.com/v8/msgs/112897.phtml

 

[LaN-]

Wow that is really bad advice. How is this person going to learn anything if he just takes it to a garage.

I know i have to choose my words here so i don't come off ass a jackass, but think of it like this. You go skiing for the first time, should the first thing you try is a 20 foot jump?

Considering its either his turbo or headgasket, both are fairly big projects. (turbo not so much) and require a fair deal of knowledge.

If anything i think he should take it to the shop so they can truly diagnose it. Once thats done he can fix it if he wants. I just don't wanna see him blow his car up and be screwed.

Unless he makes some good cash, then i say go ahead and do w/e you want. I know i made a fair amount of costly mistakes on my car which cost me a shit load of money, but luckily i made enough to pay for it all.

 

[zero97tsi]

Its not so much that its over my head, I know a good amount about cars, just these engines seem overwhelming. Ive torn down a 302 V8 to replace both HG's, Ive worked on my 3800 V6 alot, I think its the crampedness of the engine that scares me.

Either way I decided to go for the glory. Ive got the engine down to just taking the head off now.

Is it normal for those heads to stick to the block pretty bad? I pried at the thing for like an hour last night and the thing only seperates a tiny bit from the block.

 

[ZmanIV]

STOP DONT PRY AT ANYTHING THAT HAS A MATING SURFACE

use a soft face dead blow hammer to unseat the head from the block tap the head on the side creating a shearing force to remove it.
You did set all the timing marks before you broke everything down right?

Remember that these are interference heads and if the cams are spun without the timing belt attatched you can bend valves.

While the head is off to the shop to get resurfaced you need to clean off the block with razorblades to get rid of all the previous HG material.

 

[zero97tsi]

As I mentioned RIGHT before that post, ive done this before. Im not prying on any of the mating surfaces, Im new to this car, not flatout retarded.

 

[ZmanIV]

If you got the head to move a little bit keep working on it till it comes loose.
Dont forget that there are hollow pins that help to center the head on the block.
You did get all the head studs out right?
When I took mine off it was easy to get the HG to break free it was a pain to get it out of the engine bay, 60Lbs with my arms fully extended and bent over wasnt a good leverage point.

 

[LaN-]

After hearing that last few posts i have more confidence in you and think you should be able to handle this project.

If your taking the head off get ARP studs and a multi layer head gasket.

Take some pictures when you get it off so we can see whats going on here.

 

[zero97tsi]

What are the benefits to ARP studs? I know theyre stronger, but for stock applications? The head studs I pulled out were still in great condition (Im not planning on reusing them, just stating) and ARPs are a good chunk more expensive then OE replacements.

Also, are multilayer headgaskets available at Advance Auto and the like or should I go to the dealer? How much are we looking at for one cost wise?

Thanks for all the help so far BTW, Id be dead in the water right now without all the feedback. Especially lan thanks for all the good input.

 

[LaN-]

What are the benefits to ARP studs? I know theyre stronger, but for stock applications? The head studs I pulled out were still in great condition (Im not planning on reusing them, just stating) and ARPs are a good chunk more expensive then OE replacements.

Also, are multilayer headgaskets available at Advance Auto and the like or should I go to the dealer? How much are we looking at for one cost wise?

Thanks for all the help so far BTW, Id be dead in the water right now without all the feedback. Especially lan thanks for all the good input.

To really answer that question, what are you goals for the car? How much power do you want to make or is this going to be a DD?

 

[zero97tsi]

I dont have huge plans for THIS engine. Id like to get maybe exhaust, intake, maybe cams... some light modification. What Id like to do is buy an engine and build it up then drop it in when its ready so I can use the car and have some fun with it. Its going to get garaged for the winters in minnesota so Ill have a lot of time to work on it.

 

[LaN-]

I dont have huge plans for THIS engine. Id like to get maybe exhaust, intake, maybe cams... some light modification. What Id like to do is buy an engine and build it up then drop it in when its ready so I can use the car and have some fun with it. Its going to get garaged for the winters in minnesota so Ill have a lot of time to work on it.

With those items on your mod list you'll eventually be pushing down some decent power, so i'd say your going to want to get the ARP studs and multi layer head gasket.

When you start pushing a higher amount of boost you'll need them.

you can reuse the headgasket and studs. I've had my head off.........100009309893 times and still no problems.

As far as where to get parts. I'd recommend extremepsi.com (never slow boy racing THEY SUCK), they will have everything you need. Also if your taking the head off redo all your timing belt parts if you haven't already.