compound boost any one? s/c with turbo?

[boostadd1ct]

Goals. fastest spool/broader power band for street use.

powergoal 500-550whp max 600whp

this next project is a power plant swap to a rwd chassis.

what im thinking is:
4g64 wideblock 6bolt engine. with 1g head.

custom eaton mp45.
following Jayrome 's method.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/385200-diy-supercharger-4g63-warning-lots-photos.html

basically the same setup above ^^

but I will be adding an hx40 turbo aswell.


basically planning on 8-10 psi on the charger and boost the rest through the holset to meet my hp goal.



looking for feedback if you guys think its a good match. or any recommendation. ive also considered compound with 2 turbo but 3 psi at idle sounds great



also planning on e85 gas with a possibility of water injection pre turbo

 

[my dreamt dsm]

Are you looking for time slips or power in particular?

 

[boostadd1ct]

Are you looking for time slips or power in particular?

Niether. I'm looking for more enjoyable car. So broader power band and more torque down low.

Sold my 1g with 530awhp. Hy35 @ 33 psi.

Car made the power but still peaky for my liking and lack the grunt down low.

I don't mind if I push higher pressure to get the same power if I get the power sooner.

I'm already using a 2.4l block and the s/c should make it 'feel' like a bigger motor

 

[boost97gst]

Dont certain rally cars do this? I could swear i heard that a while back, maybe here on the forums.

Anyway, ya, itll be one bad mammajamma no doubt about that. You will have the best of both worlds if done right.

 

[phr0st]

With that type of SC (Really no choice but to run them in series) you're most likely going to reduce overall airflow as the roots style blower will become a restriction once the hx40 comes to life. Also the low end/initial torque from a SC combined with a 2.4 will most likely be very hard on driveline parts. 3psi at idle (doubtful) would mean your fuel economy would suffer even at idle (if this matters) and that said I feel the compound turbo setup would be much more beneficial. I remember this being done on a acura/honda like 10 years ago... the guy spent ~10k and made less power than his single turbo setup although I can see that you're not really worried about peak hp just early torque so it may be worth it to try for you.

 

[boostadd1ct]

Dont certain rally cars do this? I could swear i heard that a while back, maybe here on the forums.

Anyway, ya, itll be one bad mammajamma no doubt about that. You will have the best of both worlds if done right.

its definitely not the first its done. ive thought about doing this on my turbo 302 260z. but decided it wasnt worth the trouble since i had very limited space.

i will definitely look in that net to see if rally cars/compound search nets me anything. thanks

With that type of SC (Really no choice but to run them in series) you're most likely going to reduce overall airflow as the roots style blower will become a restriction once the hx40 comes to life. Also the low end/initial torque from a SC combined with a 2.4 will most likely be very hard on driveline parts. 3psi at idle (doubtful) would mean your fuel economy would suffer even at idle (if this matters) and that said I feel the compound turbo setup would be much more beneficial. I remember this being done on a acura/honda like 10 years ago... the guy spent ~10k and made less power than his single turbo setup although I can see that you're not really worried about peak hp just early torque so it may be worth it to try for you.

I thought about running them in sequential once on my v8, got steered away due to how complicated it will be. then it really wouldn't be cost effective.

yea the air flow I can see just not sure how much it will be a limiting factor. i mean the s/c will be compressing already compressed air and ive seen these flow right around 150-200. so it may just be right on the money.

but perhaps maybe a little bit bigger? not to sure.


well power is power if an rx7 fc driveline can handle a fI ls1 i have no doubt it will handle a 2.4 w/ s/c.



and 3 psi at idle is what the guy on the link above said he gets, HE actually completed a S/C set up so I have no reason to doubt him.


as far as mpg is concerned,
ive read some gain, some lost 1-3mpg, not bad at all, i think how much wot i do will be more of a deciding factor on how low my mpg will be.



yea compound setup makes less power but from what ive read online owners who actually built the car and people who have riden in one say its night and day compared to a single set up.

sure i can slap on just the hx40 but theres always going to be that lag under. I dont really want to go v8 due to overall cost so this is the next best thing.


huh I hope thats 10k from start to finish with everything he needed? thats pretty high. did he have someone else do this? labor fees are always a PITA.

i dont see this costing me more than 1k.

i mean I think of it this way. to make my power goal I would need everything to support hx40.

then to make a compound boost i would need.
1. custom intake manifold
2. eaton m45 s/c
3. belt routing system
4. s/c bypass valve
5. relocate throttle body.

Since i fab everything myself, cost is just material.
1. $100 (if at that)
2. $500 (seen them way cheaper like $200 some claimed lower from JY)
3. $100 (if at that)
4. $50 (other factory s/c baypass should work)
5. $50 just pipe and flange

so even without shopping around and waiting for good deals It should cost me around 800, but I said 1000 for any tiny bits you might need.


if his factoring in cost of turbo / ecu /fuel stuff etc. thats not really accurate comparison on cost comparison because he still needs all that stuff if he choose to just go single from the start to make the power



and yes i thought about twin charge turbos, either using 14b if possible or stick with 16g.

this will be a lot easier route but it will still have lag compared to s/c which is dam instant thats why im considering it.

 

[phr0st]

its definitely not the first its done. ive thought about doing this on my turbo 302 260z. but decided it wasnt worth the trouble since i had very limited space.

i will definitely look in that net to see if rally cars/compound search nets me anything. thanks




I thought about running them in sequential once on my v8, got steered away due to how complicated it will be. then it really wouldn't be cost effective.

yea the air flow I can see just not sure how much it will be a limiting factor. i mean the s/c will be compressing already compressed air and ive seen these flow right around 150-200. so it may just be right on the money.

but perhaps maybe a little bit bigger? not to sure.


well power is power if an rx7 fc driveline can handle a fI ls1 i have no doubt it will handle a 2.4 w/ s/c.



and 3 psi at idle is what the guy on the link above said he gets, HE actually completed a S/C set up so I have no reason to doubt him.


as far as mpg is concerned,
ive read some gain, some lost 1-3mpg, not bad at all, i think how much wot i do will be more of a deciding factor on how low my mpg will be.



yea compound setup makes less power but from what ive read online owners who actually built the car and people who have riden in one say its night and day compared to a single set up.

sure i can slap on just the hx40 but theres always going to be that lag under. I dont really want to go v8 due to overall cost so this is the next best thing.


huh I hope thats 10k from start to finish with everything he needed? thats pretty high. did he have someone else do this? labor fees are always a PITA.

i dont see this costing me more than 1k.

i mean I think of it this way. to make my power goal I would need everything to support hx40.

then to make a compound boost i would need.
1. custom intake manifold
2. eaton m45 s/c
3. belt routing system
4. s/c bypass valve
5. relocate throttle body.

Since i fab everything myself, cost is just material.
1. $100 (if at that)
2. $500 (seen them way cheaper like $200 some claimed lower from JY)
3. $100 (if at that)
4. $50 (other factory s/c baypass should work)
5. $50 just pipe and flange

so even without shopping around and waiting for good deals It should cost me around 800, but I said 1000 for any tiny bits you might need.


if his factoring in cost of turbo / ecu /fuel stuff etc. thats not really accurate comparison on cost comparison because he still needs all that stuff if he choose to just go single from the start to make the power



and yes i thought about twin charge turbos, either using 14b if possible or stick with 16g.

this will be a lot easier route but it will still have lag compared to s/c which is dam instant thats why im considering it.

I'm pretty sure that was the total cost of his project minus the cost of the car. It's been a very long time since i read it but I do know that he had a shop doing most if not all of the fab/tuning on it.

Totally missed the fact that you were going RWD and the rear end on the FD's are known to handle big torque out the box but I'm not sure of the FC. Most of the guys who I see building V8 FC's use a Ford 8.8 rear just for strength and weight. I guess I'm still a bit confused on what chassis/driveline you're going to use. Still I'm sure you're right about your setup I was just under the assumption you were AWD (Because I can't read) and dsm center diffs hate life.

Regardless if your goal is a fun low end monster with decent power and a flat curve I would say hell's yeah go for it for ~1k. If you document the process and give us some pics as the build goes, that's even better. I for one would be interested.

 

[boost97gst]

edit:

nvm, the m90 was the stocker on the pontiac gtp. Not the m45

 

[PotatoFlakeSTi]

Take a gander at Ronins compound charged Elise/Exige/211 build.. thing... Anyway, it's a monster.

LotusSport.org • Index page

 

[boostadd1ct]

Take a gander at Ronins compound charged Elise/Exige/211 build.. thing... Anyway, it's a monster.

LotusSport.org • Index page

thanks for the link. will read up on that.

I'm pretty sure that was the total cost of his project minus the cost of the car. It's been a very long time since i read it but I do know that he had a shop doing most if not all of the fab/tuning on it.

Totally missed the fact that you were going RWD and the rear end on the FD's are known to handle big torque out the box but I'm not sure of the FC. Most of the guys who I see building V8 FC's use a Ford 8.8 rear just for strength and weight. I guess I'm still a bit confused on what chassis/driveline you're going to use. Still I'm sure you're right about your setup I was just under the assumption you were AWD (Because I can't read) and dsm center diffs hate life.

Regardless if your goal is a fun low end monster with decent power and a flat curve I would say hell's yeah go for it for ~1k. If you document the process and give us some pics as the build goes, that's even better. I for one would be interested.

yea but v8 produced pretty high torque. and it seems people swap 8.8 + uses them on the track.

fc rear end is pretty stout and will handle the torque that this set up will putout.

I have a turbo 2 model aswell so im good in that department.


besides im not the type to run slicks or does high rpm drop off the line so my driving style is "nicer" to the driveline.

 

[JusMX141]

Had the luxury of driving a friend's automatic compound-turbo 2G at the Shootout....damn was that fun. Evo III 16G feeding a 6265 which will soon be a 6766 once he gets some fuel pump issues worked out (going mechanical).

I can honestly say it drives like every other automatic car I've ever driven until you want to kick it down, then you'd better be holding on to the steering wheel with both hands.

 

[squeak104]

Hopefully this link will help you out.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/253830-twincharger-v2-0-teaser-photos-inside.html