420A Coilpack and spark upgrades

[Untuned420AT]

Trying to diagnose some issues with my piece of shi- I mean amazing car and my buddy said to tackle basic maintenance to rule them out first. He recommended an MSD coilpack with NGK sparkplug wires a VMS racing coilpack and spark plug wires, and iridium park plugs but i want the community’s input on what I should do so i can move forward with my build. I included a video of the sound im trying to diagnose. A coworker said its metal on metal and has a misfire but im unsure if hes f***ing with me or not because everybody else says its an exhaust leak

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[CKOPOCT]

Your buddy is right about doing basic maintenance first. Ignition upgrade, though, not what I would recommend at this point.

It definitely sounds like an exhaust leak. You can see it in the video - gasses getting pushed out toward the camera. It seems like the exhaust might be coming from the rear where the turbo mates to the manifold. I would start by making sure all of your exhaust and turbo bolts are properly torqued. You may need to replace gaskets, or there may be a bigger issue (e.g., cracked manifold). But start by tightening the bolts first to see if that makes a difference.

As to the misfire, the engine sounded fine when you started it up. The seeming miss began after the engine had idled for about 20 seconds. If your miss was due to a bad plug, wire, or coil, it would have shown up immediately. The exhaust smoke seems to have a slight bluish tint to it. I suspect you may have an internal oil leak. I'd pull the plugs and see if one seems oil-fouled. If one (or more) seem to be much nastier and oil blacked than the others, you may have bad valve seals. Double check the gap. Make sure the plugs are clean before reinstalling them, or replace the plugs if necessary, to eliminate a foul ground problem.

Do a data log and check to see what it shows you. Do a boost leak test and make sure your system is sealed tight. Check your tune and make any adjustments that may be necessary. Once all of that is done, put your phone in the same spot and start it up - see if things improved. Go from there.

(Edit) - I just caught that your moniker is "Untuned 420 AT" - if that is true, that you're running a stock PCM setup, then that explains a lot. Unless you're running speed density, the PCM uses the MAF to know how much air is flowing. Since in the video the MAF is not connected, the engine won't run properly regardless. Also, the 420a factory setup wasn't designed to run under boost, so even when the MAF is connected the factory setup won't be able to adjust the fuel map properly under boost. And then there's the fuel delivery problem since the factory fuel system can't compensate or flow properly under boost. All that to say that if your name is true to your setup, you have bigger things to address before you think about an MSD upgrade.

As to your ignition upgrade question, my opinion is it depends on how you run the car and what it is built to do. I'm not familiar with the 420a so can't give pointed advice. I also don't know what your setup is like (stroked motor, cam profile, boost levels...) But my experience is that installing an MSD system or "upgraded" spark plugs really only makes a difference if you run the engine beyond what your current system can handle (high boost, extended time in high rpms, etc.) For or example, I'm running a completely stock ignition system in my GST with a moderately modified engine running 24 lbs of boost and have no problems. A lot of times beefing up the ignition system is like using an impact 10mm socket - it's not more effective, it's just more expensive.

 

[steve]

420A's don't have a MAF, their PCM uses a MAP sensor and IAT sensor to run Speed Density stock. But as you point out they don't understand anything above atmospheric and can't be easily modified to process boost.

 

[Untuned420AT]

Your buddy is right about doing basic maintenance first. Ignition upgrade, though, not what I would recommend at this point.

It definitely sounds like an exhaust leak. You can see it in the video - gasses getting pushed out toward the camera. It seems like the exhaust might be coming from the rear where the turbo mates to the manifold. I would start by making sure all of your exhaust and turbo bolts are properly torqued. You may need to replace gaskets, or there may be a bigger issue (e.g., cracked manifold). But start by tightening the bolts first to see if that makes a difference.

As to the misfire, the engine sounded fine when you started it up. The seeming miss began after the engine had idled for about 20 seconds. If your miss was due to a bad plug, wire, or coil, it would have shown up immediately. The exhaust smoke seems to have a slight bluish tint to it. I suspect you may have an internal oil leak. I'd pull the plugs and see if one seems oil-fouled. If one (or more) seem to be much nastier and oil blacked than the others, you may have bad valve seals. Double check the gap. Make sure the plugs are clean before reinstalling them, or replace the plugs if necessary, to eliminate a foul ground problem.

Do a data log and check to see what it shows you. Do a boost leak test and make sure your system is sealed tight. Check your tune and make any adjustments that may be necessary. Once all of that is done, put your phone in the same spot and start it up - see if things improved. Go from there.

(Edit) - I just caught that your moniker is "Untuned 420 AT" - if that is true, that you're running a stock PCM setup, then that explains a lot. Unless you're running speed density, the PCM uses the MAF to know how much air is flowing. Since in the video the MAF is not connected, the engine won't run properly regardless. Also, the 420a factory setup wasn't designed to run under boost, so even when the MAF is connected the factory setup won't be able to adjust the fuel map properly under boost. And then there's the fuel delivery problem since the factory fuel system can't compensate or flow properly under boost. All that to say that if your name is true to your setup, you have bigger things to address before you think about an MSD upgrade.

As to your ignition upgrade question, my opinion is it depends on how you run the car and what it is built to do. I'm not familiar with the 420a so can't give pointed advice. I also don't know what your setup is like (stroked motor, cam profile, boost levels...) But my experience is that installing an MSD system or "upgraded" spark plugs really only makes a difference if you run the engine beyond what your current system can handle (high boost, extended time in high rpms, etc.) For or example, I'm running a completely stock ignition system in my GST with a moderately modified engine running 24 lbs of boost and have no problems. A lot of times beefing up the ignition system is like using an impact 10mm socket - it's not more effective, it's just more expensive.

There's no MAF, the 420a motor’s use an IAT and a MAP sensor. I bought the car turbocharged and it ran fine for a while then this ticking started, it started idling poorly, and running pretty rough at times.

All I have done engine wise with this car is deleted cruise control, deleted the EGR, replaced the TPS and clutch with an ACT conversion, and the first time it broke down we swapped out the coilpack with a spare the guy sold me with the car as well as some spark plug wires.

Like I said it ran fine with only minor DSM issues for a while before it started ticking.

 

[jesse12345]

I'd make a vehicle profile so we know exactly what your running. I'm assuming there's a AFPR? I'd pull a plug and see what it looks like. There's not a whole lot to go off of with that video. I'd scan it for codes and see what comes up. Running it pig rich will foul out the plugs and the o2 sensor pretty easily.

The 95s handle boost great but as I've seen the 97 to 99 don't like it as much. The PCM's are not the same unfortunately.

 

[Untuned420AT]

I'd make a vehicle profile so we know exactly what your running. I'm assuming there's a AFPR? I'd pull a plug and see what it looks like. There's not a whole lot to go off of with that video. I'd scan it for codes and see what comes up. Running it pig rich will foul out the plugs and the o2 sensor pretty easily.

The 95s handle boost great but as I've seen the 97 to 99 don't like it as much. The PCM's are not the same unfortunately.

Ive been trying to make one but I don’t see the option to edit my profile or to add a Vehicle profile