Clutch went totally... crank pulley moving in and out... could it be... ???

[uberswede]

Dare I say, Crank walk?!?!

Could I be one of the incredibly unlucky few?

My clutch started slipping pretty badly over the last week or so, and Thursday night, she went totally. I couldn't get the car to move forward unless I revved to over 4k rpm, so I had it flatbed-towed to a transmission shop.

While waiting for the tow truck, I was under the hood looking around and I noticed my crank pulley moving in and out a bit...

Now, I was in there wednesday replacing all the belts... we'd found that the outer water pump pulley was on backwards, sticking out over a centimeter (close to 1/2 inch) further and causing the belt to attach to the alternator diagonally... fixed all that, but WHO KNOWS what else was put together improperly.

After seeing the crank pulley moving in and out, at least a centimeter (almost 1/2 inch), I wondered if maybe that pulley was just loose as well... mentioned it to the transmission shop thinking it might not be a big deal... maybe pop the belts off one more time, whatever, I've done it already. Not hard.


But... as soon as I mentioned to the tech, he mentioned that the clutch could have gone quite a bit quicker if the entire crank was moving in and out...

My heart sunk immediately.... NOOOOOOO. The car seemed to be running surprisingly smoothly otherwise... It couldn't be....



COULD THIS BE CRANK WALK?!?! WTF

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

If the crank is moving then obviously you have more than specified thrust bearing end play...

 

[uberswede]

I was more so wondering if it were possible the crank pulley is just loose and moving in and out... but now that I think about it, if that were the case, the pulley would probably wobble, right? Not just move in and out


FML!!!

I need to replace my bottom end, don't I???? :S

 

[luv2rallye]

Sorry but it doesn't sound good. Measure crank end play like this: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...-check-crankshaft-end-play.html#post151703279. (If it's as far off as you say you won't need a dial indicator ).

 

[uberswede]

Hahaha, OOOOOOoh I know it doesn't sound good.

At this point in time, I've just got my fingers cross that the pulley is just loose... but I'm not counting on it. Yeah, I can visually see the crank pulley moving in and out, so I don't need precise measurements to tell me that it's moving way too much... because I can see that it's moving way too much.

Let's say that I do, in fact, have a major crank walk issue... IS this a matter of just replacing the bottom end?

I do have a fully built 1G block sitting at a buddy's place right now... Arias Pistons, Eagle rods, ARP head studs, etc. etc... SOooooooo if I ABSOLUTELY have to, this won't exactly bankrupt me... and i will be better off in the end.


Are there simpler/cheaper solutions to dealing with crank walk? If I could, I'd rather deal with a motor swap over the winter when the car's parked and I'm not going to be driving it anyways....

 

[Derock2gspyder]

ya sorry bad news definitly sounds like your a victim of crank walk the harmonic balancer should move all over the place if it was just loose! sorry man

and yes switch to a six bolt 1g motor! your gonna be way better off and you wont have to worry about this problem again and that motor sounds like a decent build if you can get it for a reasonable amount! good luck!!!

 

[uberswede]

I've already more than accepted the possibility of crank walk.

My main question right now is whether or not there is a less expensive fix than replacing the entire block??

 

[Colt4G63 also]

I've already more than accepted the possibility of crank walk.

My main question right now is whether or not there is a less expensive fix than replacing the entire block??

Of course you don't have to replace the entire block. Just pull the engine and rebuild it. Or put your other engine in; that might be easier.

 

[Derock2gspyder]

ya you can just rebuild the bottom end but then your still using a 7 bolt that will potentially lead to the same problem again! go with the built 6 bolt your better off and then its just a quick swap!

 

[uberswede]

So would I be able to just swap in the block easily enough?

Will the 1g block work with the 2g head and rest of the motor? Will there be wiring issues?

Blah blah blah... I'm really starting to feel like I'm in over my head with this... I built most of the block I have myself too, but after reading some write-ups on rebuilds and such, I'm feeling less and less confident with the job I did.

It would be a damn shame to waste everything that's already in the block I have by just slopping it in there....

 

[luv2rallye]

Does the engine run at all? Because if the crank has moved as far as you say it would destroy the crank position sensor (CPS) which would prevent any spark from occurring (CPS test: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...art-no-fuel-prime-no-spark.html#post151265626).

The crank pulley (harmonic balancer) when it goes bad separates its inner and outer pieces which might look like the crank is going in and out if you don't look closely (http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...lace-your-crank-pulley-harmonic-balancer.html). Just don't want you to do an engine swap if its just the crank pulley .

BTW the spec on max crankshaft end play is only 0.0098" !!!

 

[uberswede]

THE MOTOR RUNS TOTALLY FINE!

I just replaced all the accessory belts, and noticed a bit of a squeak, then getting in closer, noticed a bit of an occasional clacking sound maybe... so looking around while waiting for my tow truck (since the clutch had gone), I noticed the pulley going in and out quite a bit... it wasn't constantly going in and out, but would just occasionally come out for a few seconds, then go back in... like I said, almost half an inch if I had to guess from memory.


If the case is that I just need a new harmonic balancer, AWESOME.

I should add that I also have a "BOMZ RACING" aluminum crank pulley I picked up off of ebay quite a while back... looking at it now, it seems rather crudely fabricated... and I'm rather hesitant to put that anywhere near the car.


But since we're on the topic, what are your thoughts on lightweight crank pulleys?

If I'm replacing it anyways...

 

[luv2rallye]

Sounds to me like your HB broke. (I don't think it's even possible for a crankshaft to move 1/2" anyway which is what got me suspicious.) I would stay with factory HB unless you have some VERY good reason not to (500hp, racing, etc). Here's some info on what the HB does and why it's crucial (post 11): never used remanufactor crank!! - DSM Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum: DSMtalk.com.

 

[uberswede]

After a quick search, I came across this thread here
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...ng-lightened-pulleys-squeeling-when-cold.html

TONS of information regarding the HB... at this point, I'm pretty convinced I'll stick with stock for now. But there is also mention of ATI and Fluidamper HB's... thoughts on those compared to stock?

 

[luv2rallye]

Never had one but I've heard a lot of problems reported on here with non-oem HB's. Since you asked you're going to be now slaughtered with a lot of opinions from all sides. You decide. My opinion is stay oem.

Here's another HB thread: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...pener-just-time-pics-video.html#post151424812.

It's late I'm going to bed.

 

[uberswede]

Well, I really appreciate your posts so far, and that you stayed up so late (hopefully not just for my sake )

I'm going to look into both OEM and Fluidamper tomorrow, and see which one I can get sooner, really... I don't particularly want to wait 2-3 weeks to drive the car just OEM one if that ends up being the case...

As for that link, wow... it definitely seems like I jumped the gun a bit on the whole " CRANK WALK" stuff, hahaha. I mean, at least I hope that's still the case... I definitely think I'll sleep a little better tonight.

 

[EagleTSIawd]

just like luv2rallye said, you will hear different opinions about witch HB to use... so here is my opinion.

OEM is always best, but in the case of the HB i thought... well its OEM and it came apart. So i went fluidamper and it works just like, if not better than, OEM and it will NEVER come apart.

 

[uberswede]

Well, I've been talking to a ton of guys with much bigger motors, who swear by Fluidamper... noticeably smoother motor, and like you said, won't fall apart.

Pulley should be here Wednesday.

 

[thomcasey]

ya you can just rebuild the bottom end but then your still using a 7 bolt that will potentially lead to the same problem again! go with the built 6 bolt your better off and then its just a quick swap!

Crankwalk is caused by bad bearings from the MFG. If you experience it, and rebuild the bottom end properly, you will not have to worry about it again. Going cheap on bearings (as they did with the 7-bolt) will get you crankwalk in ANY motor.

 

[ReYnd]

Crankwalk is caused by bad bearings from the MFG. If you experience it, and rebuild the bottom end properly, you will not have to worry about it again. Going cheap on bearings (as they did with the 7-bolt) will get you crankwalk in ANY motor.

Quoted for truth. That's why you don't see crankwalk being a problem with the 1Gs with 7-bolt motors. With the 2Gs, it seems the bearings were something they wanted to see if they could get away with producing more cheaply. One could say they did, but not indefinitely.

Keep us updated; I'm not extremely experienced with these motors, but it sounds like something else is wrong in addition to a completely annihilated thrust bearing. To be able to move an inch, there's got to be more damage somewhere. I would think the CPS would have been slung off just about as soon as crankshaft end play exceeded spec.

 

[uberswede]

As mentioned somewhere earlier, the harmonic balancer separated, and part of the pulley was just moving in and out.

But yeah... I'm pretty sure the 2g 7-bolts were assembled in the states and everything before was assembled in Japan, isn't that the case?

 

[ReYnd]

So I need to go to bed earlier, what's new. Completely missed the part about the HB.

And I'm quite sure all T/E/L motors from beginning to end were made in the US. The Galant is the only one of the bunch to sport an import motor... because it's an import and ours aren't! USDM.

 

[luv2rallye]

...something they wanted to see if they could get away with producing more cheaply. One could say they did, but not indefinitely.

Hey isn't that the American way ... along with planned forced replacement? Ask any retired marketing ececutive.