buildin a NASTY dsm.. couple questions

[SmoothCriminal]

so I got a raw deal on what was supposed to be a strong 400+whp dsm, now I'm buildin it up.

the plan:
2.3L overbore (is this possible? how much extra material is there around the cylinders?)

destroked, lightened, balanced crank (anyone make one of these or will I have to go custom? will a 1g 1.8L sohc crank work?)

titanium springs and retainers

8.5:1 pistons and billet/forged rods, ceramic coated

have the block honed blueprinted and balanced

removed balance shafts and balanced rotating assemblies

eventually, new turbo and intake manifold. Ive ordered all the parts to build my water injection setup. I imagine I'll need some sort of spark control, all I have is an avc-r and s-afc. hopefully a 1g dsmlink will come out.. or I'll just go with an msd and aem spark controller.

to keep all this power goin to the wheels an upgrade in tranny is necessary so I'm lookin at that, probably shep or TRE

am I forgetting anything?

 

[dnsyang]

boring out a 4g63 or do you mean putting in a 4g64 crank?....just go with a 4g64 instead...it will save you the hassle...

 

[GSX4LIFE]

Set a realistic goal and follow it accordingly. If 400whp is what your after, your buildup idea is way overkill. You can make over 400 on a stock block and ignition. The stroker is also overkill. Ceramic, moly Titainium, paladium, doo-dad coatings are gimmicky and wastefull in my oppinion. And using $$$ rods and pistons are for cars making 700+HP.

My best advice is to start conservitive. Dont build the engine until you have a reason. Start with a reasonable turbo upgrade. Do some searching and choose smart parts, not the most $$$ ones. Get expierience with the vehicle and tuning. Then, move upgrade, when your goals change. Good luck.

 

[SmoothCriminal]

I'm already making 400+hp, goin for balls to the wall...
I have a T3/TO4E 60 trim, an intercooler that would put most radiators to shame, and a 3" turboback exhaust.. im looking in the 800hp region..

 

[GSX4LIFE]

OK, I see. Hmm. Well, give your car and a crap load of money to a professional, and tell them to build you an 800HP car. If you were not responsible for the first 400, you have little chance of building and tuning twice that. Please dont take this the wrong way. I simply trying to make you think realisticly. There are VERY few 800whp DSMs right now. And the few that exsist were built by pros, that have been working on these cars for years and years.

 

[DevilSperm]

Originally posted by GSX4LIFE
OK, I see. Hmm. Well, give your car and a crap load of money to a professional, and tell them to build you an 800HP car. If you were not responsible for the first 400, you have little chance of building and tuning twice that. Please dont take this the wrong way. I simply trying to make you think realisticly. There are VERY few 800whp DSMs right now. And the few that exsist were built by pros, that have been working on these cars for years and years.

exactly, shep estimates his car at around 850 whp and look how long hes been in this and has sponsors...800 is a big goal

 

[SmoothCriminal]

well my real questions are at the top, wasnt really lookin for input on the feasibility of this, just wanted to know if said options existed.

I'm NOT talking about a stroker crank, I dont want to lengthen the stroke, in fact, I want to shorten it, increasing my redline to 10k or so. I'm also wanting to increase the bore of my cylinders to increase diplacement to compensate for what is lost in destroking, but I'm not sure how much material I have to work with, and what would be safe at upwards of 8000rpm. Ceramic coating and super strong internals are to just give me piece of mind and somewhat insure the life of my internals. and I'll probably have to get stronger lifters, springs, and retainers and valves if I'm pushin to 10k rpm. 800hp was an exaggeration, but 600hp isn't unreasonable for those mods AND I could probably expect a good amount of life outta the engine with such precautions taken while building it. The only thing I'll be doing myself is making the intake manifold.

my real goal isnt insane hp, but incredible acceleration with a sizeable amount of power..like a ferrari.. but not a piece of shit

 

[DevilSperm]

Originally posted by SmoothCriminal
my real goal isnt insane hp, but incredible acceleration with a sizeable amount of power..like a ferrari.. but not a piece of shit

its a dsm, of course its gonna be a piece of shit 600 is feesable yes, i dont have your boring answers but GSX4LIFE may

 

[LandoAWD]

Originally posted by SmoothCriminal
I'm already making 400+hp, goin for balls to the wall...
I have a T3/TO4E 60 trim, an intercooler that would put most radiators to shame, and a 3" turboback exhaust.. im looking in the 800hp region..

Wierd, I thought you had sold this thing.

Did you dyno in Raleigh?

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by SmoothCriminal
the plan:
2.3L overbore (is this possible? how much extra material is there around the cylinders?)

No. With the stock stroke, to get 2.3 liters you would need a bore of around 91-92mm for that displacement.

destroked, lightened, balanced crank (anyone make one of these or will I have to go custom? will a 1g 1.8L sohc crank work?)

I don't know. I do think that it is VERY unlikely that the 1.8L crank will fit, since it is an entirely different block.

If you want to destroke, consider this instead: Buy a 4G64 block, which starts out at 2.4 liters and still has a safe cylinder size. Then destroke that. You end up with 2.1 liters or so, and are still able of revving VERY high.

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by SmoothCriminal
I'm already making 400+hp, goin for balls to the wall...
I have a T3/TO4E 60 trim, an intercooler that would put most radiators to shame, and a 3" turboback exhaust.. im looking in the 800hp region..

You do know that those parts are not capable of 800hp, right?

 

[SmoothCriminal]

yeah, 800hp was just an exaggeration, I didnt dyno the car in raleigh, but yes I did buy the car in raleigh. Where can I buy a 4g64 block? I wonder if I can buy just a crank case, then put a 4g63 crank in it to get the destroked effect I'm looking for. I'm just looking for 500+hp and vision-blurring acceleration, not chassis twistin torque

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by SmoothCriminal
I'm just looking for 500+hp and vision-blurring acceleration, not chassis twistin torque

To be honest 500hp while exciting isnt anything all that crazy

 

[crankbender]

Since we are all using the same gears here you may want to look at torque for the acceleration.

As for the redline if you are planning on doing this you will need to match the rod length to the stroke length. The perfect number is like 1.49 or something (can't remember off the top of my head). Anyway I still think that is pushing it and destroking the engine to be not all that usefull.