Build plan, help me double check

[gbell]

Ok so after a couple years of owning my eclipse, I want to finally touch the turbo. I have done a lot of research and am trying to form a plan.

I've decided on running a Big T28. I can get my T25 upgraded for $550. It seems that it would fit my desires. I have never installed a turbo before too, so I've been thinking that the T28 would be nice because it should be the easiest to install, but I'm not worried about the install really. I know the Evo3 16g is in this price/performance range. Anybody want to give some insight on this decision?

I already have my fuel pump rewired and it looks like the previous owner also put in a different fuel pump. I need to do a little more research on that, but there is no aftermarket FPR, so it can't be a 255. If its a 190, that should be enough to suit my T28, correct?

I am definitely planning on going with DSMLink. I am thinking of getting 850s or 880s for the injectors. I know its overkill, but I am betting that I will want to move up to a 50 trim or a little bigger eventually and figure the price difference for injectors is minimal. With DSMLink this shouldn't be a problem and in the future I will already have the injectors I need and DSMLink chipped for them. Does this sound like a good choice.

I would like to do all the tuning myself. Thats a major reason I want to go with DSMLink. I know the support on the link forums is supposed to be great. I don't really have any worries about doing the tuning myself. I will just take it slow and do tons and tons of research. The only question I have for tuning is whether I should get a wideband or not. Eventually I will have one for sure, but money is somewhat tight now, so if I could get away without one for the time being that would be great. But I'm kinda thinking I am just going to have the bite the bullet and get one.

I am also planning on running a small FMIC. 18"x4.5"x2.25" core, I think should be fine for a T28.

 

[definitiveno]

16g 650
50 trim 750

 

[gbell]

16g 650
50 trim 750

I was thinking 850s in case I wanted to go bigger than a 50 trim. Is there a good reason to go smaller besides price since I'll have DSMLink?

 

[definitiveno]

Yes but not a good one. Smaller injectors will give better milage under dd conditions, but who cares really. Go fast with 850's instead.

 

[dnhieu]

Yes but not a good one. Smaller injectors will give better milage under dd conditions, but who cares really. Go fast with 850's instead.

where do you come up with the answer that smaller injectors will give him better milage???

just from reading your post i can tell you still need to do some more reading or get up with another fellow dsm'er to fully understand what is going on. if i were you say screw the t-28 and get the evo 16g (my opinion of course and you know what they say about thoes right?). installing a turbo is simple.

who says you cant have a walbro 255 in there? you can have it in there and it might not over run your stock fuel pressure regulator??? hell i have had a walbro 190 over run my stock fuel pressure regulator. the only way i can think of to check to see if you have a larger fuel pump is if you can hear it at idle. i know my walbro 255 is LOUD as shit!

keep the questions comming man so we can help you!
david...

 

[definitiveno]

where do you come up with the answer that smaller injectors will give him better milage???

just from reading your post i can tell you still need to do some more reading or get up with another fellow dsm'er to fully understand what is going on.

Willing to make a cash bet on that?

 

[dnhieu]

ummm...yes i will. i personally get the same gas mileage as i would with my 450cc injectors and we also just got done putting a fp 3065 on my buddies car along with 850cc injectors and are getting better gas milage right now with his afr's in the 10's then he did with 650cc injectors....


but please explain your case sir...
david...

 

[definitiveno]

ummm...yes i will. i personally get the same gas mileage as i would with my 450cc injectors and we also just got done putting a fp 3065 on my buddies car along with 850cc injectors and are getting better gas milage right now with his afr's in the 10's then he did with 650cc injectors....


but please explain your case sir...
david...

The larger orifices inside the injectors nozzle does not atomize the fuel as well as the smaller injector.









What, did you expect my answer to be some huge explanation? Sorry.

 

[definitiveno]

Is there reason to go smaller?

Yes but not a good one.

Thank god dnhieu was here to set every one straight.

 

[gbell]

I just figured that it couldn't be a 255 since there is no aftermarket FPR, since I always read about how you have to get one for a 255 or else you'll run pig rich because of the higher pressure. I used to think it was a just stocker that was rewired, but now I don't really know what it is. The previous owner rewired the pump, but he did a terrible job with it. The relay he used screwed up and I had to take it to a shop because I had just had thumb surgery. They told me that someone put in a different fuel pump in. I haven't taken the time to figure out it is yet. Its cold and dark out now, but I'll investigate tomorrow, maybe I'll get some photos so you all can help me identify it.

I was hoping I not have to get a new pump and FPR.

I was thinking of getting the Big T28 because from what I have read it spools slightly faster than the Evo3 (but really it seems like its negligable to me) and I won't have to buy an install kit. Just try to save a little money, since it seems like the Big T28 doesn't flow that much less than the Evo3.

 

[dnhieu]

The larger orifices inside the injectors nozzle does not atomize the fuel as well as the smaller injector.









What, did you expect my answer to be some huge explanation? Sorry.

i shouldnt even answer this because it is complete crap. what you were talking about was bigger injectors hurting gas milage. theoreticaly (however you spell it. wouldnt want someone to jump me about my horrible spelling also) you are correct with your answer, but dont go by confusing somone one who obviously needs help making a important decision.

i will no longer cludder this forum with this stuff...

what are you goals for the car? this will let us further help you in your choice.

 

[gbell]

what are you goals for the car? this will let us further help you in your choice.

I am looking for around 300hp to the wheels

 

[definitiveno]

I am looking for around 300hp to the wheels

Okay, there are 10 meellion turbo's that could probably do that for you, so I'll go first. 50 trim since it has evo 3 16g'esk spool/price and more headroom for future growth.

 

[definitiveno]

i shouldnt even answer this because it is complete crap. what you were talking about was bigger injectors hurting gas milage. theoreticaly (however you spell it. wouldnt want someone to jump me about my horrible spelling also) you are correct

It's why mitsubishi didn't put 1000cc injectors in your car from the manufacturer. I mean, why sizes? If they all perform the same why not just build one size and retro fit them to every car in their line up? Better milage, more complete burns (so good for emissions too?), but the measure of it might not be found using mpg's, rather you now get 10 extra miles on a 15 gallon tank, etc....

 

[dnhieu]

It's why mitsubishi didn't put 1000cc injectors in your car from the manufacturer. I mean, why sizes? If they all perform the same why not just build one size and retro fit them to every car in their line up? Better milage, more complete burns (so good for emissions too?), but the measure of it might not be found using mpg's, rather you now get 10 extra miles on a 15 gallon tank, etc....

im sure mitsubishi didnt put 1000cc injectors in because of that. i mean what would the point be? you would get like 10% idc hahahaha....


i would get a small 16g if i were you (one of the most under rated turbos). it spools like a 14b and has just as much power potiential as a big 16g! but definitiveno has a point with the 50 trim. if your planing on going bigger in the future then go big and go big once!

 

[Steve Hebert]

I have a sm16g now, at 290 at the wheels. Getting to 300 is possible, but not easy. I think if I had a evoIII it would be easier, even more so with a 50 trim. (Going in in a few weeks)

Also I really wish I had gotten an EvoIII instead of the sm16g.

Great deals out there on the Evo III right now. (Like less than your upgrade price on the T25)

Also since you've gone two years already with no mods I think you would be very happy with a evo III for at least a few years. (No matter what you get - you will almost always eventually want more)

 

[gbell]

Where are these great deals on the Evo3???

I understand people's advice about just getting a 50 from the beginning, but the cost of turbo itself and the supporting mods needed for it, just can't justify it at the moment. Plus I have no experience tuning so I rather start with something smaller. I'm sure I will enjoy the newfound power compared to the T too small. But I bet you're right that I just end wanting to go faster

 

[Steve Hebert]

Evo III $ 529.00
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=16296&cat=426&page=1

Someone else is also offering it for that, I don't remember who.
Also Turbochargers.com has it for $ 499.00, But many have questioned if that is the real McCoy. (No opinion from me... here)

and Big 16G $ 449.00
http://linux.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code=NTDSM16GBIG&Category_Code=DSM-Turbo

I think you would have to make less changes for that than you would for a 50 Trim. Especially if you really wanted to get anywhere near the full benefit of the 50 trim.

 

[gbell]

Well I don't think the shop I took it to was right about a new fuel pump. It seems like its just the stocker. I think the rewire job the previous owner did threw the shop off. So it looks like I'm gonna need to upgrade the fuel pump as well. If I get a 190 that should suit me fine right? Injectors and a pump is all I need? Or should I get bite the bullet and get a 255 and a regulator?

Those are some good prices on 16gs, but with the install kit its still going to be more than the Big T28. So is the performance difference big enough to justify the added cost?

Also if I wanted to hold off on the FMIC for a while, would it be worth getting a new turbo?