brand new to DSMs with frankenstein car

[Isphius]

Im an experienced turbo/hotrod guy, but i got this car off my friend as he needed some money. he also knew very little about this car, just got it to mess with the boost/electronics as he is also a carb/mustang/motorcycle guy.

What i know about the car, and then what i need help with

96 talon awd, 6 bolt swap, dogbox trans (very noisy? normal?) safc2, evo 3 16g, 3 inch exhaust, tial WG. FMIC, i installed RC 550s because old injectors where unknown, and set up the safc2 the way i found on RRE.com

The car runs pretty good, doenst idle well but runs around off boost quite well. The autometer lightshow gauge wired to the factory o2 reads lean almost all the time, but the car does smell like its running rich. I cant really tell. I have an aem wideband waiting to go in tomorrow.

Boost makes it to about 10 psi, then cuts out/misses/breaks up with the safc in karman mode. If i switch it to hot wire or pressue, it runs great in boost but terrible otherwise. EGT stays around 1000, is this normal?

Tomorrow im going to do plugs and wires, boost leak test/fix, new o2 sensor, wideband install, and a new(used) MAF from a running car as mine has the honey combs punched out, and im getting an MAF check engine light code. Im using the torque app and a bluetooth obd to scan it for now

I need ideas on other stuff to check out, i know the 6 bolt swap can have its complications BUT the car does run quite well, starts right up cold and drives around normally just fine. is there really anything that could be wrong other than the CAS hack?

 

[RedVengeAPX]

I would look into getting rid of the safc and getting ECMLink its so much more flexible, you'll have to get an EPROM ecu and send it in but turn around time is amazing, and it can also scan. Other than that it sounds like your on your way to a fun project. I would check out the upgrade path and some of the tech articles for more ideas and the site itself has loads of great info. Good Luck

 

[Rogi]

Aaahh, jealous, I haven't been able to find a 2g awd around me for nothing

 

[Isphius]

well the hesitation issue was a combo of fried MAF and a horrible boost leak. One of the front mount connections was a home depot rubber PVC joint. I replaced it with another rubber joint i had around so the car is driveable, but i need to order an entire set of clamps and couplers. The whole intake has regular easy to strip hose clamps all over it

 

[90_eclipse]

Definitely get a new fuel pump. Sounds like you got a lot of good mods across the table, but a fuel pump should definitely be something considering next. If you want to play it safe, go with a walbro 190. Personally, and knowing many other fellow DSMers, you can run a 255 without many problems (argue what you want, just going off my experiences and talks with other dsmers) but just know it DOES outrun the stock FPR.


GET RID OF THE NARROW BAND***

This is coming from VERY RECENT EXPERIENCE. First of all, o2 sensors create it's own voltage. Narrow bands USE this voltage as it's source to "tell" you what the o2 sensor is seeing. However, it will F*** with your fuel maps soo badly.The voltage created by o2 sensors are very little making them very sensitive. With the narrow band reading it, you're actually disrupting the reading, and lowering the voltage. I've gone through 3 o2 sensors not knowing why my data logger would show my o2 sensor cutting in and out (frt02 read 199% and stayed like that or would sit at 100% with no fluctuations) which really messed up my idle.

For a cheap alternative to Link, get a data logger. It's important to know what the ECU is seeing. So things you should really look at getting?

-Data Logger
-Fuel Pump
-GET RID OF THE NARROWBAND

 

[Isphius]

Ive been running an AEM wideband+gauge. should i disconnect the o2 gauge from the narrowband?

Ive got the car running pretty good, still have vac/boost leaks on one injector seal and the TB seals, looking for a place to buy or order these today. The car runs good, got the SAFC to read right around 14.7-15 will cruising in all gears, but under boost it still pegs all the way RICH and you can smell/feel it. I have the HI setting turned down about 20%, but i think the rich is from the air leaks.

Also, on cold start, the car runs super lean even when accelerating but as soon as it kicks into open loop it idles nicely right around 14.7 at 1000 rpms. could this be a coolant temperature or some other sensor issue? everyones problem seems to be running rich when cold

 

[marcman804]

Check out extrempsi.com for the seals and pretty much any replacements you may need. They are super fast when it comes to shipping out parts.

 

[ed1380]

And machv ships real cheap

Got a pair for under $15 shipped

As for the safc, you want to always keep it in karman. That's what the 2g sensor is

 

[marcman804]

Not to hijack this thread, but ed1380 where did you get your exhaust? The cops just love Greddy Evo exhaust and they can't get enough of pulling me over to get a closer look . I love the way it sounds though and I hate to even think about getting rid of it, but the tickets here in Virginia are ridiculous. Yours looks pretty close to stock and I think thats the look Im going for now to draw less attention.

 

[Isphius]

low key exhaust is ftw I have an N1 style muffler on here and i get pulled over every once in a while. good inspection and good paperwork is key .

So, i disconnected the gauge from the narrow band. But, according to my scanner the ECU is seeing either 0 volts or .1 volts at both 02 sensors, the after cat one is way back in the exhaust and there is no cat. And the fuel trims long term is up between 5.5% and 12% and the short term is usually cranked to max, 17.5%. so this would make sense if the ecu is getting shitty voltage readings right? does this mean both sensors are fried or something more serious? i set the safc up based on the wide band to get 14-15 on the low throttle settings and the computer cranks it up to full rich after a few minutes, and i have to reduce them even more. but then when i start the car again it runs all the way rich. Runs great under full throttle and boost, but this idle/low rpm stuff is driving me nuts

 

[Spoolin92GSX]

I'll throw my .02 in here.. I'm not much help on your whole problem, but without 'Link you need a downstream o2 eliminator. I know when you run catless on a 2g that rear o2 sensor freaks out, there are a lot of write-ups around here on how to fix that up.

BTW nice find! That'll be a hell of a fun car once you get the gremlins under submission!

 

[Isphius]

I'll throw my .02 in here.. I'm not much help on your whole problem, but without 'Link you need a downstream o2 eliminator. I know when you run catless on a 2g that rear o2 sensor freaks out, there are a lot of write-ups around here on how to fix that up.

BTW nice find! That'll be a hell of a fun car once you get the gremlins under submission!

thanks, i actually am planning on DSMlink very soon, after some research. I HATED the safc/hacked MAF on my supra, it never worked "well", it was awesome under WOT but driveability sucked, and it seems its the same with this car too. But i cant knock it with the few problems i know about.

New issue update - o2 rears about 1 volt cold start, lowers to .4 to .5 after a minute or so, which should be GOOD af ratio, then drops to 0 and stays till the car gets cold again. The rear o2 is just reading 0 and giving me no code at all. does this mean they are both fried some how, or a deeper issue?

on a side note, have WG directly hooked up, got ride of the MBC. but the car hauled and was making 22-23 psi, but it kept blowing the IC pipes off and getting a fuel/boost cut that felt like the motor popping at around 5500 or so. running out of MAF haha

Definitely get a new fuel pump. Sounds like you got a lot of good mods across the table, but a fuel pump should definitely be something considering next. If you want to play it safe, go with a walbro 190. Personally, and knowing many other fellow DSMers, you can run a 255 without many problems (argue what you want, just going off my experiences and talks with other dsmers) but just know it DOES outrun the stock FPR.


GET RID OF THE NARROW BAND***

This is coming from VERY RECENT EXPERIENCE. First of all, o2 sensors create it's own voltage. Narrow bands USE this voltage as it's source to "tell" you what the o2 sensor is seeing. However, it will F*** with your fuel maps soo badly.The voltage created by o2 sensors are very little making them very sensitive. With the narrow band reading it, you're actually disrupting the reading, and lowering the voltage. I've gone through 3 o2 sensors not knowing why my data logger would show my o2 sensor cutting in and out (frt02 read 199% and stayed like that or would sit at 100% with no fluctuations) which really messed up my idle.

For a cheap alternative to Link, get a data logger. It's important to know what the ECU is seeing. So things you should really look at getting?

-Data Logger
-Fuel Pump
-GET RID OF THE NARROWBAND

Oh, the car has some kind of aftermarket or different pump(evo maybe?), guy couldnt quite identify it. Im going to do the 255/AFPR when i get the time. i have the 255 pump and kit already

 

[boosting_pwr]

Nice find! All the DSM's I find around here are about to fall apart and at one point were modified. Good luck with the new ride.

 

[Spoolin92GSX]

on a side note, have WG directly hooked up, got ride of the MBC. but the car hauled and was making 22-23 psi, but it kept blowing the IC pipes off and getting a fuel/boost cut that felt like the motor popping at around 5500 or so. running out of MAF haha

Yeah with 550s and unknown fuel pump (and assuming pump gas) that can be risky going over 18-20ish psi, at least in my experience. If it was me, just to be safe, I'd dig that boost controller out of the trash at least until you get everything else ironed out.

Couple things that just popped in my head too.. Try cleaning your MAF, actual "MAF cleaner" says not to use on Karman Vortex MAFs, so to be safe use their "Electronics Cleaner" (according to a Toyota factory tech). Also, since you didn't mention any of it, is your BOV recirc'd or vented? I know that won't cause your problems but it sure won't help either.

BTW I've seen that Torque app before on android market, how you like it?

 

[Isphius]

Yeah with 550s and unknown fuel pump (and assuming pump gas) that can be risky going over 18-20ish psi, at least in my experience. If it was me, just to be safe, I'd dig that boost controller out of the trash at least until you get everything else ironed out.

Couple things that just popped in my head too.. Try cleaning your MAF, actual "MAF cleaner" says not to use on Karman Vortex MAFs, so to be safe use their "Electronics Cleaner" (according to a Toyota factory tech). Also, since you didn't mention any of it, is your BOV recirc'd or vented? I know that won't cause your problems but it sure won't help either.

BTW I've seen that Torque app before on android market, how you like it?

the app is worth it just to get the codes and instant MPG for DD cars. otherwise, it tells you some useful stuff, fuel trims, o2 voltage, intake temperature, i just wish it could read knock and injector duty cycle then it would be amazing. Its def worth it tho, its 5 dollars for the app and 30 for the bluetooth obd2 adapter.

Just to clarify, the MBC is still on the car, just bypassed. i didnt mean i literally got rid of it. the wide band is reading 11-12 AFs even at 20 psi, but i turned it down to be safe. got plenty of fuel, just trying to fix the driveability issues before i go messing with the fuel pump. dont want to add more variables just yet. Once i get the o2 thing ironed out, and a rear o2 eliminator, def investing in dsmlink, and installing the walbro and fuel mods. then ill see what it can do haha

 

[Spoolin92GSX]

Ohh okay, sounds like that's plenty under control then Carry on sir

 

[Isphius]

I got a new o2 sensor, wired it up and the car ran great, was getting 0 or .8% fuel trims, for about 3 days. Its back to reading 1.3 volts cold start, 0 when warm

Before i posted this, i pulled it out just to make sure it wasnt caked up or fried, i sprayed it down with brake clean since i figured it was shot anyways, rechecked all the wiring, and it works fine again. Its amazing how much different a crappy o2 sensor can make


On the highway, im getting a weird lean/fuel cut situation around 3000 rpms. I was just reading a thread about that being from the 6 bolt swap/1g CAS, so im going to read a bit more of that. Im kind of wishing i knew the guy that assembled all this stuff lots of wire checking and reading to do

 

[phunny]

12 is very lean on pump gas, I'd try to tune to around 11.0:1. DSMlink will help you out a lot in figuring out these gremlins. As far as replacing the fuel pump, why??? Unless you have running out of fuel which dsmlink will tell you than you are fine.

 

[souleux]

I know its a little late but I noticed no one mentioned this. If it is truly a dogbox transmission then yes it will be loud. You should hear the gears meshing together while you are driving (whining sound). Also you should only be using the clutch from a stop otherwise just shift, dont need to be hard about it but can't be lazy.

 

[awdjosh]

Or the whining is from the tcase and somebody lied about the dogbox which is VERY expensive haha

I doubt your running out of MAF as stated. At 22psi and trying to tune with a safc and 550's with all your bugs I wouldnt be beating up on it. High 11's and 12's can bye bye motor.

 

[souleux]

Im thinking someone lied about the dog box... I mean maybe you got lucky and its there but considering a dog box would be more then all the other mods combined. And they didnt put money into tuning it I doubt they put money in the transmission.

 

[silicosys4]

Check ASAP on the dogbox. If it is indeed a dogbox, sell that biatch, totally unnecessary for what you have, and put the $3k+ you should be able to get for it on a stage 2 shep trans or the equivalent and some more goodies.

 

[Isphius]

Welcome to DogBox Racing! Home of the Fastest DSM's in the Tri-State!

this is what i meant. I think its a stage one. I figured out most of the rear end noise is coming from the rear passenger wheel bearing, so thats getting replaced. But i can still hear the t case and trans gears

I replaced the o2 and the car runs great now. So what should my EGT and AFRs be for 93 octane pump gas? like a general "safety" number that i shouldnt pass?its between 10.5 and 11.5 now with the safc set up the way it is