Air/Fuel (AFR) gauges worthless???

[Zmann42087]

I was reading some threads on here earlier today, and one thing in particular caught my eye...

DSMtuners thread

Is it true that (stock) narrowband air/fuel gauges are worthless? Until today, I'd never heard that. If they really are inaccurate, can somebody tell me why the heck so many people have them???

I'm going to be purchasing gauges in the next couple weeks. One of those gauges was going to be an AFR gauge, but now I'm not too sure... I really don't want to spend the money on a wideband air/fuel gauge as I don't really need it for tuning purposes right now. I was planning on purchasing a Faze air/fuel gauge or maybe a lower-end Autometer air/fuel would do the trick, but I guess those might not work now. Can someone please confirm or deny the new info I found?

 

[oldman]

If they really are inaccurate, can somebody tell me why the heck so many people have them???

Most likely because of the same reason you want it, it's pretty much just a light show. You said it yourself, you don't need it for tuning so why do you want it?

 

[Staytuned]

The only good thing I see in these is the fact it will tell you if your O2 sensor is cycling at idle or cruise.....and of course the cool light show at night.

Seriously I wouldn't waste my money on this thinking it's a good tuning aid.

 

[AWD_Launch]

The reason people get them is because they don't know any better, a wideband though would be a much smarter idea to tune with. The A/F gauge doesn't show you what your A/F ratio looks like, all it does is light up and tell you if it thinks the car is running rich or lean.

 

[DGajre777]

An a/f gauge is just as inaccurate as the stock boost gauge. If you need to fill up another hole and want a cheap gauge, get volts.

 

[leet]

Probably because a lot (read: a LOT) of people are stupid and don't research things at all.

They are useless unless you are going for the Star Trek factor.

 

[Zmann42087]

Most likely because of the same reason you want it, it's pretty much just a light show. You said it yourself, you don't need it for tuning so why do you want it?

"light show"? are you serious??? WTF Sorry oldman, but that is not the reason I wanted it.

Actually, the reason I wanted it is because I was under the impression that those AFR gauges actually provided accurate information... you know actually fuctioned properly. When I said I didn't want it for "tuning purposes", I meant that I didn't care that I wouldn't be able to wire it in to work in conjunction with DSMlink, and hence "tune" with it. With AEM's wideband UEGO you can connect it to DSMlink with the two working in harmony. Although, I wasn't going to use it for "tuning purposes" doesn't all of a sudden mean that I was buying it for a f*cking "light show". I was planning on purchasing it under the assumption that it could help me keep tabs on whats going on under hood while I'm driving. Sure, I can go back later to check in more detail on how things are running and obviously tune the car with the data the logger provides, but I also wanted the feedback while I'm driving and believed that an air/fuel gauge could help provide that.

Honestly, it irritates me that some people are so ready to jump the gun and assume somebody is a ricer, ready to work on their interior "light show", when in reality all they wanted the damn gauge for was for a little more feedback on the go.

 

[oldman]

Honestly, it irritates me that some people are so ready to jump the gun and assume somebody is a ricer, ready to work on their interior "light show", when in reality all they wanted the damn gauge for was for a little more feedback on the go.

Sensitive aren't we? Honestly, this really isn't the type of question that someone who is thinking DSMLink should be asking. I find it hard to believe that you have only read it for the first time recently, this has been said every time an a/f gauge is mentioned, probably more often than how inaccurate the stock boost gauge is and why one shouldn't improperly vent the BOV. With this in mind, coupled with the fact that you were not very clear in your original post concerning your intended purpose of the gauge and I quote:

One of those gauges was going to be an AFR gauge, but now I'm not too sure... I really don't want to spend the money on a wideband air/fuel gauge as I don't really need it for tuning purposes right now.

You can see why one can easily come away with the same conclusion as I that you're just looking to filled a gauge pod like 90% of the many thread starters on the same exact subject. With that said, you're right that I shouldn't assume and my sincere appoligies.

 

[DSMcrazy3]

First of all dude, calm down. No body was harrassing you or calling you names or indicating they think you're a ricer. He and many other members of this board describe a narrowband a/f gauge as a light show to put emphasis on the fact that it is not a tuning device, and due to it having 3 different colors of cycling lights it has been described as simply a light show.

I do agree that this gauge is in no way accurate to get a proper tune. However, saying it is worthless, I disagree with. Again, it's not a good tuning device but it does give you a narrow view of your A/F mixture and whether or not your o2 sensor is functioning properly. That's my view on it, I'm not here to start any arguments whether or not this gauge is worthless or not.

 

[droppinbottom]

Calm down and you will get help for the questions you ask. I was debating on even trying to help you with the way you jumped on someone who was trying to help you already.

Well to help answer your question, there is not much use in purchasing a narrow band o2 as you already have one installed on your car and you can get a idea of what is going on by looking at your logger. To get any kind of tuning ability you need to get a wideband o2 sensor. The AEM uego is not going to help you very much unless you are definitly going to get dsmlink or some other kind of engine management very soon. Yes the AEM one is wideband but alone it is very hard to tune with since you have no way of looking at the info except while driving which is unsafe. My recomendation would be to save your money and purchase a wideband kit with logging abilities; innovative motorsports has the LM-1 which I have and zeitronix makes a wideband setup.

 

[DGajre777]

Calm down man. Some people especially the girls, like the blinky light show which tends to be very annoying when you drive. Since the lights change really fast, it is called a "light show". Do a search for "light show gauge" and see how many threads you get. I would personally never get a narrowband A/F gauge.

Now, as for gauges, pick one...
1) Boost/Vac + Volts
2) Boost + Vac (yes 2 seperate gauges)
3) Boost/Vac + Electric Oil Pressure
4) Boost/Vac + Electric Fuel Pressure (if you are worried about your AFPR or fuel pump failing on you)
5) Boost/Vac + EGT (if you are are not getting wideband)
6) Boost/Vac + Wideband gauge controller (AEM UEGO)

You can get Innovate LC1 wideband (without gauge) for under $200 to log it with DSMLink, ECU Plus or to use it with MAFT Gen II for their wideband tracking.

 

[turbo2g111]

I nicknamed the narrowbadn A/F guage that came with my car Skittles because every time I drive I can almost taste the rainbow of colors. Even though it is expensive, wideband O2 is worth it. It will help your car run much better because it will know much more acurately what mixture it is running.

 

[nightspeed87]

everyones car is different and everyone has differnet experiences and i think just get whatever you think is going to work for you on your car. I have a faze airfuel ratio gauge on my eclipse and yea as far as tunning the car with it, there right thats not going to give you a very narrow or specific reading of whats going on, its just kind of a random glimpse of whats going on with that gauge, but if you dont have money to get a safc or whatever else tunning devices are out there, this would be the cheaper way to tell anything because even though not accurate this gauge will still tell you if your running too lean and in danger of messing someting up, ( example if u floor it and the gauge reads lean, there you go ) not narrow or precise but the gauge is better than a guess in the dark. Thats my opinion , basically if u wana tune dont get it, but if you wana just have a lil knowledge of ## air fuel ratio (not specifics) then u could try it out

 

[MyBeatGSX]

They have their place. Its can be an indicator of problems and could show an instant warning if the engine goes lean. It can also be used for ballpark part throttle/cruise tuning, I've done it, it works. You can also see how well the O2 is functioning and if the car is correctly working in closed loop mode.

Its not a light show, its not a ricer gauge, it IS useful. Maybe not the most useful gauge, but its not by any means a ricer gauge. A volt meter is a ricer gauge.

 

[DGajre777]

Its not a light show, its not a ricer gauge, it IS useful. Maybe not the most useful gauge, but its not by any means a ricer gauge. A volt meter is a ricer gauge.

I don't know what the heck is ricer gauge is, but the narrowband A/F gauge is VERY distracting while driving.

As for volts, if someone has a big audio system in their car and wants to know when their battery is about to die by running the audio stuff with the battery alone or if someone wants to monitor their volts to see if other parts of the car might not be getting current due to a big amplifier, a volt gauge can be useful.

If you don't mind, please explain why a volt meter would be a ricer gauge.

 

[Talesin]

Narrowband AFR gauges are just a lightshow. They are rice. They don't tell you anything useful, and should be relegated to the bargain bin for Honda owners. They're usually bought by ricers, or 'on the cheap' tuners... difference being, the latter sell them off as soon as they find out they bought a $50 piece of crap.
(Those whose car had them when they bought the vehicle, and don't want to bother with uninstallation are excused.)

 

[groundPork]

The moron who owned my caarbefore me was a total rice maniac! When he sold me the car it had the blingy wheels, the itnted windows, the BOV shnizzle, the 20 inch TACH, and the ubiquitous AFR gauge... if all this beratting hasn't convinced you yet. take my word and imagine putting one of those disco mirror balls in your car, expecting it to be some sort of useful equipment... all mine tells me is RED....GREEN...YELLOW... RED.... GREEN... jack sh**t! We all have turbo'd deallies... you'll need the wide band eventually. better now than later... learn what the AFR readings of a wideband really mean now. don't wait till you install later after the big hair dryer and can't figure why it sounds like ball bearings in your engine everytime the gauage says 13.8:1 under WOT!!!!!

 

[MyBeatGSX]

I don't know what the heck is ricer gauge is, but the narrowband A/F gauge is VERY distracting while driving.

As for volts, if someone has a big audio system in their car and wants to know when their battery is about to die by running the audio stuff with the battery alone or if someone wants to monitor their volts to see if other parts of the car might not be getting current due to a big amplifier, a volt gauge can be useful.

If you don't mind, please explain why a volt meter would be a ricer gauge.

You have a battery light that will come on if the alternator output drops below acceptable levels, you don't need a volt meter. Also, if you have 700lbs of stereo equipment in your car that you think is fast, that would make you a ricer anyway. Most higher quality caps have built in volt meters, you don't need one in cabin to try to look fast or impress people.

Most of you people bashing the narrowband light show have probably never used a wideband. Widebands cycle at cruise too. So instead of seeing RED...GREEN....YELLOW...GREEN, you'll be seeing.... 14....19.....12.....21....13....18... The a/f cylces at cruise, thats how the ECU is designed.

That fact that you immediately resort to Honda comments tells me you don't know jack. Yes, narrow bands are useless for WOT tuning and anyone that's using them for that is a retard. But they have their place for cruise/part throttle tuning and engine monitoring. You need to know how to read it and notice patterns, or how to tell normal O2 behavior from non-normal O2 behavior. Having a rich/lean indicator for $50 can be better for most peope than having a $500 wideband. Especially when most dynos have built in wideband loggers. You're an idiot if your tuning only on the street anyway.

 

[Talesin]

As opposed to tuning under controlled conditions, which you will never see when the car is under actual use, no matter if it's a DD, drag queen, or road racer?

And if you're dropping $500 on a WBO2, I've got a bridge to sell you. No... TWO bridges.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Because the street has rollers on it to tell you how much power you're making right? Or do you just go by how fast it feels? I love controlled conditions. Just because the car will never see them on the street doesn't mean I don't want repeatablity and accuracy while I'm tuning.

Sorry bro I don't buy used widebands, and I don't buy cheap widebands. Those things have a miniscule accurate lifespan as it is. I'm not about to be the second owner. Last I checked, the cheapest one on the market is the AEM UEGO which goes for around $350-$400 here. Zeitronix, Motec, etc all go for WELL over $500. Of course that's not including the price of getting a bung welded in. Even that MASSIVE LM-1 is like $400. The controller is so big you'd have to seat belt it into the passenger seat.

How is everyone going to bash NBO2's when one of the SAFC guides on this site has a whole section about tuning with NB voltages and I've seen 8 gazillion topics discussing it??

 

[DGajre777]

You have a battery light that will come on if the alternator output drops below acceptable levels, you don't need a volt meter. Also, if you have 700lbs of stereo equipment in your car that you think is fast, that would make you a ricer anyway. Most higher quality caps have built in volt meters, you don't need one in cabin to try to look fast or impress people.

Most of you people bashing the narrowband light show have probably never used a wideband. Widebands cycle at cruise too. So instead of seeing RED...GREEN....YELLOW...GREEN, you'll be seeing.... 14....19.....12.....21....13....18... The a/f cylces at cruise, thats how the ECU is designed.

That fact that you immediately resort to Honda comments tells me you don't know jack. Yes, narrow bands are useless for WOT tuning and anyone that's using them for that is a retard. But they have their place for cruise/part throttle tuning and engine monitoring. You need to know how to read it and notice patterns, or how to tell normal O2 behavior from non-normal O2 behavior. Having a rich/lean indicator for $50 can be better for most peope than having a $500 wideband. Especially when most dynos have built in wideband loggers. You're an idiot if your tuning only on the street anyway.

Damn dude, don't take it personal.

Subs, sub box and 1 or 2 amplifiers don't weigh 700 pounds. And most people are actually race have boxes that they can take out before they go to the track.

As for wideband, you can get one for $200 (Innovate LC1) or $280 (AEM UEGO with a wideband A/F gauge). I don't know why anyone would need a $500 wideband.

You said it yourself, narrow band o2 are useless for tuning, and if a o2 is not behaving normally, it SHOULD trigger the CEL anyways.

 

[Stangmurdera]

AFR gauges are actually very accurate but cannot be used as a tuning device. I have one simply to know that when my car is under boost, the light should be green. This tells me that I am not running too lean. This is the only time I use it but when I hit the gas hard and the boost kicks in, all I see is green on the AFR. If I don't see green, I lay off so that I do not lean out my engine too much. To test how accurate mine was, my buddy hooked it to a machine that reads the computer of the car and tells you everything. This is like a 5000 dollar machine he had access too. When the O2 sensor read lean or rich, the AFR gauge was perfect. It does work as long as your O2 sensor is reading accurately. Don't depend on it to tune, but it definitely isn't useless. For the money, its still a decent indicator gauge.

 

[wallyman]

Personally, If you wnat to know what your A/F ratios are looking like i would go with an EGT gauge. An egt will let you see if your running lean even at cruising speeds. Unlike an A/F gauge which only works when your in the throttle.

 

[wallyman]

Because the street has rollers on it to tell you how much power you're making right? Or do you just go by how fast it feels? I love controlled conditions. Just because the car will never see them on the street doesn't mean I don't want repeatablity and accuracy while I'm tuning.

Sorry bro I don't buy used widebands, and I don't buy cheap widebands. Those things have a miniscule accurate lifespan as it is. I'm not about to be the second owner. Last I checked, the cheapest one on the market is the AEM UEGO which goes for around $350-$400 here. Zeitronix, Motec, etc all go for WELL over $500. Of course that's not including the price of getting a bung welded in. Even that MASSIVE LM-1 is like $400. The controller is so big you'd have to seat belt it into the passenger seat.

How is everyone going to bash NBO2's when one of the SAFC guides on this site has a whole section about tuning with NB voltages and I've seen 8 gazillion topics discussing it??

The computer isnt going to fail its going to be the sensor it self. You can purchase new wideband sensors for roughly 70 bucks.

 

[v2ner]

Everybody just go stand-alone so you don't need any gauges except for boost(if you're using a MBC).