AEM Ems -- Speed Density

[LilBeanTSI]

It is needed during the tunning process and not needed after. Would it be a good idea to have, obviously but the car will not stop running without a wideband hooked up. The original question was simple, what is needed to run speed density with AEM EMS? A map sensor, ait sensor, and a 2g knock sensor (for 1g guys). A wideband would be a good idea to constantly monitor afr's or to make changes at the track but for the 10th time it is not neccessary. I don't know how I can make it any clearer than that.

 

[laggin3]

you NEED a wideband if you have an AEM EMS

AEM FUEL TUNING MANUAL, before you condiser buying the aem,
the stock aem ems maps for the 1g DSM are very good, as long as you do all the changes correctly, my car starts super fast, never fouls plugs, and is awsome with the aem

I have a aem wideband, which is cool for auto tune

Why get the EMS and auto tune for 350 HP? Kinda defeats the purpose of a standalone doesnt it? If you think the stock maps are good then again, why are you running an EMS? If you dont need a wideband to tune your AEM, why have it at all? Stock ECU cars put out far more HP than you are currently, and have all the characteristics that you claim the AEM has. Thtart thuper fath, never foul plugs, and have awesome drivablilty. I dont know of any AEM certified tuner that tunes without a wideband. Mine sure as hell didnt. The following is pulled from RRE's site:

AEM's Engine Management System (EMS)
God's Gift To Tuning. Best thing since turbos and AWD, really. This is a complete replacement ECU. A full standalone ECU that saves you a week of wiring hassle and a week of tuning set up. It is plug and play, which means you plug it in and start playing with it. It has start up base maps that get you going but you will need access to a wide band O2 sensor for tuning. Some dyno time would be a good idea too. You will need to put in some time for idle set up. Ignition maps are great to start with. Fuel tuning to 95% capability can be done in a good 2-3 hour drive late at night. AEM is providing a level of tech support for this system previously unheard of and unimaginable for such a product. This makes a stand alone ECU finally cost effective for the average guy (for better and for worse

A few things in there that I found interesting. Bottom line is you guys need to stop playing word games and admit that if you have aspirations for utilizing the AEM to its full potential, then you need a WB.

p.s. Utilizing the AEM to its full potential does not include running basemaps, or getting 350HP on a DSM. A N/A Honda maybe, but not a DSM.

 

[LilBeanTSI]

Once again as I said before and just like the quote form RRE states you need a wideband to tune the car, you do not personally need to own one and permanently have one installed in the car. You can simply dyno tune the car on a dyno that has its own wideband. That is why it says "access to a wideband o2 sensor for tuning". Not, you need a wideband in the car at all times.

 

[laggin3]

Stop playing word games. You need a WB.

 

[GVR4592]

Once again as I said before and just like the quote form RRE states you need a wideband to tune the car, you do not personally need to own one and permanently have one installed in the car. You can simply dyno tune the car on a dyno that has its own wideband. That is why it says "access to a wideband o2 sensor for tuning". Not, you need a wideband in the car at all times.

Some of you guys have never even seen an ems equipped car so you aren't qualified to even be posting in this thread.

I've never met anyone with an ems equipped car that didn't have a wideband. They all do their own tuning, and they aren't going to go to the dyno every time they want to make a small change in a/f. You can get a wideband for under $200, so why wouldn't you?

What if you wanted to make some changes to your map at the track or on the street? You couldn't. What if you wanted to use closed loop 02 feedback? You couldn't. What if you wanted to use Automap? You couldn't. What if your fuel pump started going downhill (very common with walbro's)? You wouldn't know until it was too late. You can setup fuel cut, or warning lights that will trigger if your wideband reads a lean condition. What if you wanted to upgrade to larger injectors? Another trip to the dyno. What if you put race gas in the car and wanted to take advantage of the added knock resistance by leaning it out a bit? Dyno time again? With all of those trips to the dyno you could by 10 widebands and do it yourself.

Without a wideband in the car you are pretty much defeating the whole purpose of have the EMS: real time datalogging and tuning. If you can't tune it, then why buy it?

 

[PSI NRG]

To clear everything up about the wide band o2 with AEM EMS...In order to tune the car you need to have a wide band o2 hooked up... BUT if you are dyno tuning they stick the o2 in the exhaust and tune from that. The only reason you need to run the wide band is if you tune your car yourself or you are using it as a reference. If you have youre car professionally tuned at a shop theres no need for one other than for personal preference.

 

[coltboostin]

Jesus you gusy are bickering like bitchy women.

Will AEM EMS work sans a wideband? YES.

Did I just go out and test this to be 100% sure befor I am forced to insert my foot in my mouth? YES

If you a big baller and can afford AEM EMS, should you have enough money to purchase the wideband there for making this whole thread null and void? YES


Christ.

 

[Mark90gst]

Laggin3
Why get the EMS and auto tune for 350 HP? Kinda defeats the purpose of a standalone doesnt it? If you think the stock maps are good then again, why are you running an EMS? If you dont need a wideband to tune your AEM, why have it at all? Stock ECU cars put out far more HP than you are currently, and have all the characteristics that you claim the AEM has. Thtart thuper fath, never foul plugs, and have awesome drivablilty. I dont know of any AEM certified tuner that tunes without a wideband. Mine sure as hell didnt.

I have a wideband in my car, personally I wouldnt run it without one in my car okay buddy.

i dont even use auto tune that much, second i made 350whp with a safc NOT AEM PEMS, I have a aem wideband, I also made 350whp with a stock 1g 7 bolt, stock head,cams intake. that was old, i havent dyno my new setup yet,

Next the stock 1g maps are GOOD compared to a 2g aem map, but you guys probaly wouldnt know that would you, the 1g maps that aem provide will atleast start your car with a little work to them, then it is a never ending process from there on in.

 

[Mark90gst]

by the way who even has aem ems, posting in this thread?one or two other people than me

 

[GVR4592]

I have it, my brother has it, my cousin has it. I've tuned theirs, I tuned an 1994 RX7 with ems. I've tuned other systems as well.

 

[laggin3]

by the way who even has aem ems, posting in this thread?one or two other people than me

Owner of #0098 Any other questions?

 

[Mark90gst]

thats awsome man, but some people on here just need to read some info on the aem before asking these questions

 

[Mark90gst]

was the owner of #0064 aem 30-1300 any more question? just got stolen last night out of my car

 

[yukondoit]

ok back to the topic of the thread but why would you want to switch to speed density?

Just for clarification i am not new to tuning, I tune engines at MTU all year for emissions with steady state tuning and i have experience with motec.

With that said, i've read (books not internet forums) speed density is a primative system, as it runs off of what you program and does not compesate well to changes. such carbon build up or any change in ve. Also with lumpy cams it throughs off you idle because of the pulses in the intake. I've worked alot with alpha-N, some speed density. I still believe that a maf system is the way to go. you can change your 2d delta-N maps to make up for leans spots in transients.

i understand the benifets of standalone, im just curious why speed density is the trend.

 

[hostile]

Speed density works well on a DSM.

If your using an AEM small changes in VE can be handled with o2 feedback. If you want a highly modified car to drive like stock it is going to have to be well tuned, regardless if it is maf based or speed density.

I would call bullshit on the carbon build up, if carbon builds up bad enough to make a Speed Density car run bad you got problems and it is not in the tune.

 

[yukondoit]

that still didnt answer my question, is there a specific reason as to why people run speed density. as what makes it better. was the first person who ran it used a map so everyone followed.

yes i know aem has closed loop operation, hence why i plan on running on the next engine.

also the carbon build up was used for an example purpose, dirty air filters whatever.

 

[hostile]

Less restriction in the intake pipe before the turbo.

You can run a TIAL bov.

I wanted to be able to log boost and charge air temp.

Cleaner looking piping without a hotwire or factory mas.

Allows for bigger air filters.

 

[JamiesTSI]

Also high boost will overrun the MAF. Which is why people go MAP.

 

[yukondoit]

are they over running stock maf or hotwires?

 

[JamiesTSI]

The short answer is, Yes on the MAF.

The 1st gen. Maf is easily maxed at high boost levels which is why some elect to get the 2nd. gen. MAF which is larger but it to will be overrun with high amounts of boost.

 

[DSM PERFORMANCE]

That's why people goes with MAFT and get in trouble and finally wished they had gone AEM EMS before.