advantages vs. disadvantages

[ginsu417]

Never heard of anyone running 9s on a turbo 420A.

Until I see it, 4G63 > 2.4L 420A Turbo

 

[RSTsoon]

http://www.turbosystem.com/auto/cars/Len 2001.htm

You live and you learn.

 

[ginsu417]

Yeah, but that's a full-race neon. Similar financial roots put into a 4G63 would net lower time slips in a neon. The 420A is a GREAT platform, no doubt. And it does have a lot of potential - the neon SRT-4 is proof. But take a look a david buschur. When I see a 420A keeping up with him, I'll be quite impressed. But for now, my preference is still 4G63

 

[RSTwnnabe]

Ok here is my two cents, its simple, the 420A is NOT meant to use forced induction, its a TOTALLY differnet engine, im NOT bashing it, because i drive an RS! and acually i was looking to turbo it up till now, because i realize YES it can be done, and YES it is fast, but usually when u mod something in a way it wasnt built, something can and usually does go wrong. In a nutshell, i look at it like this: the 420A isnt meant to be turboed, the 4G63 is built FOR a turbo obviosuly, so if u choose to build a 4G63, its going to be alot more cost effective and less of a hassel. ONCE AGAIN! im not bashing any 420A, im just stating my opion, like i said, i drive a 420A, i just hitnk they are better off built up for all motor, that can be fast too hopefully il lget this GST im looking at by the end of the week. Good luck to all u guys wether your a 420A or a 4g63 guyall the way
Dave

 

[siueclipse]

really dude, youre going to have problems no matter what motor your mod. don't think you wont have problems if you mod a 4g63, cause you will..

 

[DSMNightmare]

No problems here, at least none that I could not fix myself Seriously any car you go with is going to have issues at some time or another. You said yourself that you don't want to touch the bottom end or any hardcore stuff like that. I know dozens of people with 4Gs that are making plenty of power and have no problems to speak of.

 

[siueclipse]

no problems mike?

what about your tranny? im sure there are some other things that have gone wrong with your car due to the mods youve acquired.

 

[DSMNightmare]

Tranny is the only problem and that was entirely my fault. I should have bailed the run when the redneck did not start the tree for 40 seconds. Under the circumstances that tranny lasted a long time. I was laying down a lot more power than this guy is talking about.

This is a list of Major repairs and why they broke in the first place.

1. Tranny: I stalled an A/T for 40 seconds.... You do the math.

2. Water pump. Because the guy who originally did my timing belt never changed the ORIGINAL water pump. If you do your timing belt change ALL your timing parts and your water pump. Otherwise you'll be doing it again when the old parts break.

3. CAS. Cam Angle Sensor: Reason for breaking is old age although most peoples last as long as they own the car. Once again this is a part that can be changed when you have the timing belt done. BUT if you have a 1G or a 97+ then you can change it anytime because it's mounted on the opposite side of the head.

All but one of these repairs came with age. The tranny was due to overheating and the fact that the stock A/Ts are only good to about 325-350hp. Slap a 20G on a stock A/T and your running on borrowed time. There are cheap and easy measures to avoid that so the tranny can take more like end clutches and so on. The best way to avoid it if you don't want to mess with it is get a M/T. The water pump was just old and should have been done with my timing belt job so that is a moot point. Timing belts and water pumps on ANY belt driven timing should be replaced every 60K miles. On a DSm your looking at about 300 for all the parts including the water pump and balance shaft pully. The CAS was just old and it is a 50 dollar part....whooopieeee....The only bi*** is the fact that with a 95-96 you have to once again pull the timing belt to do it because the sensor is behind the intake cam. I guess thats the trade off for having a EPROM ECU .

Fact is on either a 420a or a 4G63... Any of these problems can be avoided by doing things right the first time. I blew the tranny because I did not care and was impatient. I had a spare tranny sitting at home so it was no sweat off my ass. If you buy a 95-96 with high miles you might as well do the CAS at the same time to avoid getting stuck doing it later.

Other than those three things I have had no problems with my car at all and as you can see they are very very minor things and two of the three will just happen with old age.

So to answer your question James: No I have not had any major problems. I think when he is asking about problems he is thinking about big stuff like blown head gaskets, burnt pistons, blown turbos...etc...etc... I ran my car hard, but I took care of it and when I pulled my T25 off at 125K miles it had zero shaft play.

Nuff said.

 

[RSTwnnabe]

Yeh when i say problems i mean like something thats guna put the car down for a while, not little stuff that usually goes wrong. with a performance car, theres bound to be more problems, than with a stock engine with minor mods and bolt ons.
dave

 

[rookieupgrade1]

Race Neon 420a turbo also ran nitrous so it had a little help to get under 10. This is the first time I really paid any attention to this forum. (since I plan to build a 6 bolt 4G63 turbo) I think that you can get similar preformance from any engine as long as you do the proper build up. As far as the age of the design.....doesn't matter. I know of a 75 2.0L engine that spanks the hell out of ours in the stock condition. (75 Jenson Healy with the 2L lotus w/dual webers. Sweet)

A well rebuilt engine will be better than stock every time due to the better than stock componants used. IMO.

 

[RSTwnnabe]

Yeh i agree with that, but right now im not in the position to have my engine rebuilt, and i figure jsut keeping and running a stock GSt will be reliable, yet fast, without haveig to rebuild.
dave

 

[DSMNightmare]

Originally posted by RSTwnnabe
Yeh i agree with that, but right now im not in the position to have my engine rebuilt, and i figure jsut keeping and running a stock GSt will be reliable, yet fast, without haveig to rebuild.
dave

Did you ever find out what that noise was?

 

[1997RS]

Wow Guys! Geez have I been behind on stuf here ,
Question does anybody here knows Where can I get good prices on JE pistons and all that good stuf so that I can build my engine by this christmas??? I have a 1997 rs and to me is pretty strong I LOVE It I take on Hondas around here besides the V-TECH ones though but it is all about to change LMFAO well need help here money is not a big issue but if I can save a few g's then it is all set for me at a faster rate if you know what I mean

 

[dsmrunnah95]

Originally posted by Turbonium
i don't think the 420A is 10 years newer than the 4g63..... they used them in cars 10 years later but the motor appeared first in 95 i think and the 4g63 appeared in 1990 so thats more like 5 years....... so what is making the 420A a better designed motor exactly?? i'm not sayin either one is better but the seem about the same to me except the only motor you can get with AWD is the 4g63 so....thats my choice.

Wrong. The 4g63 showed up in the DSM in 1990 but was used in other Mitsubishi cars before then. I believe they first showed up in the 1982 Lancer EX2000 (Japan Only).

Originally posted by herostar
By the way... I was talking to a mitsubishi mechanic tonight and he said that the 4g63 is a way better engine than the 420a, even counting crankwalk. He told me that they get tons more 420a's in that have spun a rod and need a short block than crankwalked 4g63's. He said in the 4 years he's worked for the dealership he's only seen 2 CW's, but countless spun bearings on 420a's. Even HE says that they named it 420 for a reason.... if you know what I mean.

On this one I'll give 4g63 owners the benefit of the doubt. Honestly look who mostly own 2gnts: Girls (some actually know car stuff), Young Drivers, and just plainly unexperienced people. Those people I just mentioned would take it a dealership before even think about working on the cars themselves.

Now look at 4g63 owners, most are performance obsessed and are very mechanically inclined. If they experience crankwalk, they dont take it to a dealership (which has been proven to cause crankwalk again). They pull their engine out and throw a 6-bolt in there.

Thus gives you the reason a dealership will see more 420a's than 4g63s.

[edit] Didnt know j-a-p was banned.

 

[2FST4U]

no. . . .the real reason their are more 420A's at a dealership is because they have sold more than the turbos.

Is'nt it great when people come up with their own BS.

 

[racer]

well as everyone knows the turbo cars are more fun to drive then the N/A cars but 90% of my friends that have a turbo cars,expecialy modified have problems with someting.I was gona turbo my car but since here where i live u dont realy need car that can push more 300HP I decided to build the engine and keep it N/A.I ll go with 2.4l for sure.Since Im going to be able to put down 200-220 HP on the wheels with N/A engine and car with body wight 2500lb(with full tank of fuel), why should I go turbo.When I get spanked by turbo car I actualy feel good cuz I raced a turbo and i lost but When I get spanked by N/A car I feel so bad cuz im like damn this guy is better tuner then me cuz he tuned his N/A engine better then me.Turbo is turbo.Example: he has better engine but smaller turbo and me have a stock engine but rune few psi more and I spanked him so u see turbo = no skillz=every body can win with turbo.No shit is DAMN fun driving turbo but i dont wana deal with all the problems turbos have and beating turbo car with a N/A feelzzz awesome

O and that guy ginsu417 that says 4G63> 2.4L 420a !!! who told u that 2G 420a is 2.4L? it is 2.0L as well as 4G63. 2.4L is into the 3G eclipseGS but is a SOCH engine so it is a whole diferent story.Actually there is no stock Mitsubishi engine that is 2.4L DOCH.plz read befor post.

 

[ginsu417]

Originally posted by racer
O and that guy ginsu417 that says 4G63> 2.4L 420a !!! who told u that 2G 420a is 2.4L? it is 2.0L as well as 4G63. 2.4L is into the 3G eclipseGS but is a SOCH engine so it is a whole diferent story.Actually there is no stock Mitsubishi engine that is 2.4L DOCH.plz read befor post.

Originally posted by BlueMoonEclipse
*raises hand..

I spun a bearing on my 420a...then again i had bad bad engine ovestress when it hapened....i got good mechancs who do the job for beans...and do a hell of a job.....so im geting it fixed while i develop my 2.4 alongside....need to keep using car..will sell the rebuilt block once my 2.4 is ready for operation...

Cause 2.4 420a turbo>4g63 turbo

Please read the entire thread before making weak attempts at flaming me. I KNOW what comes in DSMS - I've worked on enough of them.

Now that you mention it, there IS a stock DOHC Mitsubishi 2.4L motor. The 93-94 Galants came with a DOHC 4G64.


And while the torch is still hot... I have no pitty for N/A builders who think they deserve more respect than turbo builders simply because they're at a disadvantage or that they need to do a lot more work and spend a lot more money to be just as fast. Building a N/A car for the purpose of competing with turbo cars of similar displacement is like cutting off your right foot and entering the olympics.

You set yourself up for a turbo barbque by saying that TURBO = NO SKILL. Building and tuning a turbocharged car requires MORE skill and experience - there are 5 times as many variables involved and the REAL racers do EVERYTHING N/A builders do to increase power PLUS a lot more. Part fabrication, space restrictions, pipe routing, boost control - and tuning an ECM with varying air pressure, air flow and air temperature is MUCH more difficult than generating a fuel curve for a fixed airflow, fixed pressure and constant air temperature N/A motor. Turbo builders still have RESPECT for N/A builders provided that they UNDERSTAND that they're putting themselves at a disadvantage by going that route. But nobody's going to respect anyone with a slow car who goes around saying building a turbo car takes no skill.

 

[dsmrunnah95]

Originally posted by 2FST4U
no. . . .the real reason their are more 420A's at a dealership is because they have sold more than the turbos.

Is'nt it great when people come up with their own BS.

Isn't it great when people are old enough to drive cars but still can't use correct grammar?

Even though the 420a out-sold the 2g 4g63's, it still doesn't make up for the crankwalk:spun bearing ratio.

 

[BlueMoonEclipse]

*sigh!

2.4 420a doesent exist???......hmmm check under the hood of several chrysler vehicles...but yes it does not come under dsm's hoods (unless you stuff it in there neatly )



this crankwalk vs spun bearings fight really sucks


Every engine has aweak spot just find it and correct it....keep an eye on it

reason for 2.4 420a being better in my opinion? plain and simple 20% more displacement over 4g63 (then again i am tempted to buy a no/dead engine Gsx and plunk down in it a 4g64 with a diferent head and turbo it...fun fun awd lauch...and that would definitively eat even more resources than what im doing right now...)

 

[97eclipsedGS]

I have turboed, so i might be able to shed some light:

Positive:
- car is faster!
- car has more potential
- uniqueness factor, in that not many have done it

Negative
- shit breaks ALL THE TIME (aka blown tranny, fried ecu, cv joints, axles)
- hard to get the car running properly
- costs a lot more to maintain properly

all in all (and the turbo 420a guys are gonna jump on me for this) if i had it to do over, i would have sold my car and bought a 2g GSX. i love awd launches.... but now that i have gone the turboed 420a route, im gonna stick with it and keep modding till i hit low 13s. then i will be happy. i will probably need LSD, fmic, and internals to get there, but i think it will be a fun time and a good learning experience on the way... KEEP ON TUNING GUYS!!!!

 

[abyrd96]

Originally posted by siueclipse
really dude, youre going to have problems no matter what motor your mod. don't think you wont have problems if you mod a 4g63, cause you will..

I totally agree. If you alter any engine from stock to high performance there will eventually be issues. I've had my HRC Stage II on my BONE STOCK 420A for two or three months now and everything is running great. Labor is not an issue with installing a kit...if you're on this forum there are plenty of people here to help, not to mention detail install guides and tech support now-a-days. This was my first experience with a turbo period Click Here for Tech Article and it was not difficult. Here's my list:

Advantages:
Knowledge Gained about your car
Power
Speed
Pride & Ego boost
Staged Upgrade capabilities to fit you budget!
Beating 4g63's...sometimes
Knowing you have LESS $ in your 420A w/more power and under-the-hood aesthetic appeal than if you were to buy a stock GS-T or GS-X

Disadvantages
Replacing inferior stock parts to support turbo
Scarcity of people with experience dealing with 420A turboed
Price of supplemental performance parts I have found are relatively high and are produced in less variety than for stock turboed cars

My only regret is if I would have known more about Eclipse's when I was looking to purchase I would have bought either a GS for the power and all disk brake options or a GSX for the AWD option, or each's Talon equivilant. Other than that, no regrets at all. Real racers see my rear drum brakes when they pull beside me and think they can stomp...Uh Uh. I have left several doors on the road since my install. It is great to see their faces

peace

 

[BlueMoonEclipse]

Well if we want a real comparison we gota compare GS/RS VS GS-t and not GSX ...for the whole sake of the 420a vs 4g...and not only that we gota compare only 2g GS-T due to the advantage of weight of 1g' vs 2gs

Still GS-T's are running ahead...but not by as much as the GSX are in 1/4 mile

Still if given the option of a GS VS a GSX id take the GSX in a heartbeat just cause its awd (awd is great....ive allways loved subarus cause of that)