4g63 crate engines

[1fast97gsx]

I spent:

$800 on pistons and rods
$120 on bearings
$150 on gaskets
$300 on machine work
$55 on bse kit
$90 on headgasket
$110 on arp head studs
$5 on assembly lube
$15 on oil
$20 on plugs
$10 on oil filter ( mobile 1 w00t w00t )
$200 on freshly rebuilt 1g head
$150 for 1g head swap parts
That totals to : $2100 about ....

That's with myself doing all the work ( so no labor ) and that without any machining on the crank. Also there was no need to ship the block or anything since I did it in my garage ( duhh ) ... $3500 would be a reasonable price on a FULLY BUILT longlock.

 

[CHEVEROLETGUY]

I thought that this subject would get some thought. now I should have said this before, when I build an engine I dont shoot for horsepower alone, I shoot for Reliability, any one can build an engine to throw down a good number but make that number for an entire day and that is the trick. now dont get me wrong the DSM boys did a fantastic job with this engine. but there are a few things that I can see that would/could be the difference between holding 9500, or puting dents in the oil pan. I dont know what the price would be yet but I would shoot for one hunderd dollars profit, but the amount of tim I will put into these Is why I would only produce a few of them, not much profit, just making a name

 

[tokyo_tad]

wow, if its only $100 above your costs, I'd definitely be interested.. How about building up 2.4 hybrid long blocks? I'm in the midst of doing this but if someone sold one for cheap, I'd definitely buy one.

 

[Kingdom]

umm, what are crate engines?

and will they have a warranty. I think that will help your sales alot.

 

[out there]

if you're going to be that inexpensive... perhaps you should contact magnus, ffwdconnection, slowboyracing, turbotrix, etc to get a business account with them and get your stuff for a good price? then you'll be able to offer the final product at a good price and make more than $100+/-. since you're building blocks, would you also be doing blueprinting/balancing/shaving/etc to the rotating assembly (similar to the butcher crank at ffwdconnection)? would you be building up heads too? so you could sell an entire built engine for $xxxx + delivery? opportunities are virtually limitless

 

[sophat34]

if this is the rought he is going, skip getting parts from magnus, fwdconnection, or any other vendor for that matter. get your tax id number and go strait to the manufactureing companies ross, paulter, ferrra, ....

 

[gotswrv]

I recently noticed that on partznet one can pick up a shortblock and a head for not to much moneys concedering its new... I was planning on getting a crank block and head and having someone put good parts in and walking out minus 3-3.5K. Really not bad for a decent timeslip slip and a little reliability. Not sure but I think I'm gonna go the 16G route cause I have everything in hand and then start up with a fresh motor/trans build while I enjoy not having the T25.

With all that said, I'll be in the market for a performance long block soon. I'll be looking to get 400 to the wheels. I wouldn't try to get 300 outta the stock bottom end. Probaly 300 crank but not at the wheels...

Good luck, keep us posted...

Sam

P.S. some sort of reputation or guarantee required.
I know you can't say here's a racing motor, it'll last XXX miles.
But I hate buying new, broke ass, unreturnable stuff...

 

[GSX0TIC]

The future is in import engines and fuel injection.

Actually the future is hydrogen fuel cell motors.

 

[BoostinAWD]

Which our cars can be converted too.

 

[CHEVEROLETGUY]

thanks for all of your input. I think that I need to get the ball roling, but here is a side note about what you are talking about. I work a a CHevrolet dealer, and gm swares that they wont build a gas powered engine by the year 2015.

 

[crankbender]

Originally posted by GSX0TIC
Actually the future is hydrogen fuel cell motors.

Little off topic...hope you don't mind.

Why would you say this. Where do you think the hydrogen comes from?

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by GSX0TIC
Actually the future is hydrogen fuel cell motors.

Don't believe all the hype, we are very far away from anything like that. Hybrid electric/gas is more feasable than hydrogen cells. And the world keeps turning.

-Groomz

 

[GSX0TIC]

Originally posted by crankbender
Little off topic...hope you don't mind.

Why would you say this. Where do you think the hydrogen comes from?

H2O
H=Hydrogen
O=Oxygen

Just add water Really.

No but in all seriousness my electrical teacher at my automotive school preaches like the hydrogen fuel cell motor is the future and will be here very soon. Actually its already here just hasn't caught on yet. I mean platinum isn't cheap which is used in the hydrogen fuel cell motor but I believe it will start becoming more commonplace in the near future.

I agree that the transition will still take time obviously, but with gas prices skyrocketing and the fact that the internal combustion engine is a poison machine, I believe the days of the internal combustion engine is numbered.

My electrical teacher's credentials & misc facts(If it means anything to you):
- German man(i know that means jackshit) who's father and grandfather worked at Miller Benz in Germany.
- Miller Benz engineers developed many things that are on many cars today. EX. Vtec, which was sold to Toyota and Honda for 1 Billion a pop, the wishbone suspension, disc brakes, drum brakes, and many more things that I can't think of off the top of my head.
- Teacher has 2 PHDs.
- Teacher speaks 5 languages (English, German, French, Arabic, and Aramaic{sp?})[I'm sure you all could careless]
- Came to America when he was about 17 and soon worked for Mazerati(sp?) and made around 90k a year
- Is a multimillionaire
- Drives a Mercedes 600 (V12)
Ok to the relevant crap
-Is in the process of building his own car from the frame up. Putting a hydrogen fuel cell motor. NO emissions, no sound, and the car will weigh about under 1000 pounds.

Why the hell would a multimillionaire teach at an automotive school? Definately not for the money. The answer he gave was to teach technicians eletricity IE: Ohm's law, Watt's law, Kirrchoffs rules, use a voltmeter, ohm meter, ammeter, and pretty much to respect electricity because it can kick your ass.

I'm sure you're all annoyed or think I'm full of shit or could careless about some of the facts I've written, that's fine.

In the words of my instructor in his German accent, "If people doubt the hydrogen fuel cell or think its a piece of shit, tell them to *Censored*.

Sorry trying to keep this as PG-13 as possible.
:laugh:

But anyway, so sorry to whore this thread up. I believe the thread was originally about 4g63 crate engines or something like that.

 

[rph74]

The difficult thing about selling 4G63 crate motors is the fact that a high percentage of DSM'rs are not wealthy. Many are high school or college kids who bought their DSM because it was a good "bang for the buck". 1G owners can spend little $$ and get great performance out of a car they spent $2000-$3000 for. That makes the market for a built 4G63 crate motor pretty small IMO.

I consider myself one of the more well heeled DSM'rs here, but I would still hesitate to spend $2k on my 91 Eclipse. And I'm sure my wife wouldn't like it too much either.

In contrast, many older guys out there with more $$ are building hot rods using Chevy Small blocks, etc.

 

[chrisAWD]

Originally posted by GSX0TIC
H2O
H=Hydrogen
O=Oxygen

Just add water Really.

give me a break, where do you think the energy comes from to make the hydrogen? hmmmmm......possibly fossil fuel? so you take a gallon of gas and dump it in a car and the car goes 25 miles OR you take a gallon of gas, use it to make hydrogen, dump it in the car and the car goes 25 miles. wow, good job saving the environment.

My electrical teacher's credentials & misc facts(If it means anything to you):

good lord, what does that have to do with ANYTHING....oh shit the dude works for free, he must know what he is talking about.

 

[rph74]

On the topic of alternative fuels, I'd like to add Biodiesel. It is made from corn, it will work in diesel cars and trucks and is available NOW.

 

[BoostinAWD]

Actually they get hydrogen by running high amounts of current through rods that are submerged in water. Where does that electricity come from? Water.

Free fuel in some sense.
Sorry to whore the thread.

 

[chrisAWD]

So your saying ALL electricity is from hydroelectric dams?!!!! HAHAHA......that is a SMALL percentage of the total power produced in this country. Most electricity STILL comes from COAL and other fossil fuels.....how is that for "actually"

 

[GSX0TIC]

OR you take a gallon of gas, use it to make hydrogen, dump it in the car and the car goes 25 miles. wow, good job saving the environment.

You're completely wrong but anyways this thread has gotten a bit out of hand. No point in continuing this any further.

My instructor knows exactly what he's talking about. He also works at the NSA...but wait he must be an idiot if he works there.

Mods should close this thread.

 

[97_GSXTC]

all you guys are missing the point of this thread, chevyguy, just wanted to know "if i build it, will they come"? ya know. of course if you buy a brand new motor with what 0 miles on it, new heads and ish, you're gunna pay a couple g's for it. now 350 whp isn't a lot when considering the work, but theres a lot of tuners out there who would rather pay for a simple swap than do the labor themselve, not dsmers, or course. they're definately out there. shoot, a 3k carm, a 3k motor and you're runnin, what 13s or sumthin, plenty of youngsters wouldn't mind that.

 

[sjwelna]

On the topic of alternative fuels, I'd like to add Biodiesel. It is made from corn, it will work in diesel cars and trucks and is available NOW.

HAHA, my friend was talking about this. In his post-apocalyptic imagination, he figured he'd just grow his own fuel. Either that, or go to all the McDonalds, Burger Kings, etc, and offer to take their used frier oil, send it through some kind of super fine filtration system, and then just dump it into the car.

Nothing like free fuel.....

Good idea, just don't know how practical it is.

-Steve

 

[GPTourer]

I'm not so sure an independent could survive doing this. It's kinda like the PC clone wars of the 80's and 90's. Somebody will always find away to undercut you by a few hundred bucks or so and put you out of business by cornering the market on the supply of blocks, cranks or what have you. Eventually somebody like "Dell" or "Gateway" or in our case FFW or Magnus comes along and offers something unique along with covering the basics well and puts most of the small independents out of business.

Maybe somebody like Crower or DART (whoever it is that does the B20 Honda crate engines) will come along and make us a drop in 2.3L stroker long block that is good for 500hp right out of the box, has adaptor kits for either generation and provides just the right mix of parts at a "reasonable" price. $3500 maybe?


Oh, and IMO, diesel is the way to go and is a stopgap between all the high tech cell stuff. Europe and asia have already embraced it, its just the US thats being stubborn.

 

[ITSME4G63]

This could only be coming from a chevy guy, well domestic guy, since you're so used to seeing mustang and camaro crate engines being sold, but in the dsm world its a different story, mostly what you see for dsms is prebuilt short blocks or built heads, I haven't really seen any crate engines for sale for dsms but correct me if Im wrong. You have to understand that half of people that have dsms are on a budget, the dsm is the poor mans fast car, so most won't look into buying crate motors. If you did shortblocks or built heads, or maybe even your own bolton turbos? Like www.forcedperformance.com.

 

[ITSME4G63]

I spent:

$800 on pistons and rods
$120 on bearings
$150 on gaskets
$300 on machine work
$55 on bse kit
$90 on headgasket
$110 on arp head studs
$5 on assembly lube
$15 on oil
$20 on plugs
$10 on oil filter ( mobile 1 w00t w00t )
$200 on freshly rebuilt 1g head
$150 for 1g head swap parts
That totals to : $2100 about ....

That's with myself doing all the work ( so no labor ) and that without any machining on the crank. Also there was no need to ship the block or anything since I did it in my garage ( duhh ) ... $3500 would be a reasonable price on a FULLY BUILT longlock.

tell me where you got it machined?

 

[Aikouka]

Actually they get hydrogen by running high amounts of current through rods that are submerged in water. Where does that electricity come from? Water.

Free fuel in some sense.
Sorry to whore the thread.

It's called Hydrolysis.

The few hydrogen stations in the United States are all self-powered by solar cells and they just pull water for hydrolysis. They had some 2 hour long special on the History channel about the past, present and future of automobiles and they talked about fuel cells, biodiesel (who wants to go around in a car that its emissions smell like french fries?), hydrogen cells and all that good stuff.

Spending $1500 on a JDM longblock was a lot for me to spend, but I think you can find a market with a quality rebuilt engine. Would you also consider rebuilding people's engines if they send them?