2G 2g Fuel Pump Rewire Knock/Low Timing Now!??!??

[1slowhatch]

Rewired my 2g awd. I've read I'm on the ragged edge of fuel with a B16g @ 19lbs on the stock fuel system. So I upgraded the wiring with 8 ga front to back with a relay. The relay clicks... seeing 14+volts at the 2 large wires at the fuel pump now. Before, I was seeing about 12.7v cold, running @ idle.

The car now runs much WORSE.. It feels like it has no timing in it... so I hooked up my scanner, I'm seeing 7 degrees max advance in 1st gear, sometimes, negative in 1st and 2nd! However, in 3rd gear on a hwy pull, I've seen as much as 15 degrees near redline (this is probably the most timing advance I've ever seen under boost on this car).

WTF could be going on?? Rich condition just from increasing voltage to the stock pump? Rich knock?? Maybe on the highway (longer pulls) it uses up enough fuel supply to not to be too rich? I don't have DSMlink or anyway to tune. I'm thinking of going back to the stock fuel pump wiring.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Get a fuel pump and stop trying to run your car on the ragged edge.

 

[1slowhatch]

Get a fuel pump and stop trying to run your car on the ragged edge.

How would putting a larger pump in there help the situation? Quite possibly could make it worse!? Stock fuel pump @ 14 volts with stock 450cc injectors should easily support my ~270 chp.

 

[JDT]

I'm on the ragged edge of fuel with a B16g @ 19lbs on the stock fuel system.

I don't have DSMlink or anyway to tune.

This is your problem. Stop before you blow up your engine. The stock fuel system cannot support that and it's evidenced by the problems you're describing here.

Get a better fuel pump, bigger injectors, wideband, FPR, and a way to tune.

 

[1slowhatch]

This is your problem. Stop before you blow up your engine. The stock fuel system cannot support that and it's evidenced by the problems you're describing here.

Get a better fuel pump, bigger injectors, wideband, FPR, and a way to tune.

Ok... I would totally agree with you if ADDING FUEL via a fuel pump rewire increased timing or decreased knock.. but I am seeing the exact opposite reaction. Can someone explain how a larger fuel pump will fix this? If my car was running lean before, I would be seeing more knock and less timing... right!???

I can also dig up plenty of info showing 450cc injectors and rewired stock pump should be plenty for 300+ crank hp... or 30lb/min (I've never seen more than 27.5ish max on a cold night).

 

[joejoe]

You are out flowing that stock pump. Those injectors are past 100% duty cycle.
Stock injectors at 100% cycle will out flow stock pump even rewired.... you need to turn that boost down to 13psi.. enjoy that until you can get needed mods. It will blow before you know it... also I don't know what intercooler you have or ambient temps.... but that 16g at 19 psi will heat soak like crazy.. on stock side mount... first time it happened to me I was like wtf! Haha. Had to let the car sit for 30 minutes.

 

[joejoe]

I have been in your shoes.... only way I was able to make it work was by adding 190 pump... and afpr. I bumped base pressure to 47-48 psi. Hit the road 20 psi ran great.... other then rich idle and part throttle...and occasional heat soak... but who cares....haha... I later got really stupid with this already stupid setup and blew her up. You can do what you want but I can say from experience this is a short lived set up.

 

[1slowhatch]

You are out flowing that stock pump. Those injectors are past 100% duty cycle.
Stock injectors at 100% cycle will out flow stock pump even rewired.... you need to turn that boost down to 13psi.. enjoy that until you can get needed mods. It will blow before you know it... also I don't know what intercooler you have or ambient temps.... but that 16g at 19 psi will heat soak like crazy.. on stock side mount... first time it happened to me I was like WTF! Haha. Had to let the car sit for 30 minutes.

I have a VRSF style front mount intercooler. I think I have plenty of intercooler... after a long pull, the far side of the cooler is still cool to the touch.

I guess I'll know if it's out of fuel. I'll be putting in a wideband this week with the exhaust install.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Way back when i had the 450's and a rewired 190. This was with a small 16g and I would fuel cut at 18psi. It's not enough fuel to support that flow. Your better off turning the boost down and getting things sorted. Why push the car when it's not ready and possible melt down. Lower boost will keep more timing in and you will make more power that way. More boost than the ecu/fuel system can handle and it's just pulling timing and making no power. I would take the advise from all of us that's been there done that You don't have to wait and see if your out of fuel. You ARE!!

 

[1slowhatch]

Way back when i had the 450's and a rewired 190. This was with a small 16g and I would fuel cut at 18psi. It's not enough fuel to support that flow. Your better off turning the boost down and getting things sorted. Why push the car when it's not ready and possible melt down. Lower boost will keep more timing in and you will make more power that way. More boost than the ecu/fuel system can handle and it's just pulling timing and making no power. I would take the advise from all of us that's been there done that You don't have to wait and see if your out of fuel. You ARE!!

As much as I want to agree with you guys, the results just aren't adding up. I turned the boost down to 13 PSI just now... and saw tons of timing retard/knock. At 4500 rpm in the lower gears I actually saw negative timing advance. There's something else at play here.

Also, I know about the fuel cut. My car only hits fuel cut on the first drive in cool air at 20+PSI. If I have it set to 19ish, it won't hit it.. certainly not on a hot summer day.

The car had wayyyy less knock and more timing with 19 PSI with the stock fuel pump and wiring. The only thing I can think of is that maybe I did the rewire wrong some how??

 

[Dsmkauai]

Recheck your work bro, something is def up. Also have you done a boost leak test. Either way you should really be looking into a tuning solution and fuel upgrades. Pushing things like this won't last long.

 

[19gsx91]

Have you ever heard of too rich knock? If you turn the boost down too far your still dumping fuel. turn it up to high and your leaning it out. I'm with the other guys. Find a happy medium and keep it that way until you have the proper supporting mods. Even the 2g fuel tables stock call for 9.5 afrs in the high end which will cause issues. try it at 15psi and see if it's SAFE don't worry about power until you have MONEY. to buy the PROPER SUPPORTING UPGRADES.

Keep arguing with the members on here that have BEEN there and DONE that and when you blow it up.. guess who's going to be shaking their heads? 3 separate people have told you to play it safe and you're still arguing.. I really don't know what to tell you man. Do what you want but uh. Sleepy G up there knows his small turbo stuff, I'd listen to him

 

[1slowhatch]

Recheck your work bro, something is def up. Also have you done a boost leak test. Either way you should really be looking into a tuning solution and fuel upgrades. Pushing things like this won't last long.

I have done several boost leak test recently. Holds 25+ psi for 30+ seconds.

Have you ever heard of too rich knock? If you turn the boost down too far your still dumping fuel. turn it up to high and your leaning it out. I'm with the other guys. Find a happy medium and keep it that way until you have the proper supporting mods. Even the 2g fuel tables stock call for 9.5 afrs in the high end which will cause issues. try it at 15psi and see if it's SAFE don't worry about power until you have MONEY. to buy the PROPER SUPPORTING UPGRADES.

Keep arguing with the members on here that have BEEN there and DONE that and when you blow it up.. guess who's going to be shaking their heads? 3 separate people have told you to play it safe and you're still arguing.. I really don't know what to tell you man. Do what you want but uh. Sleepy G up there knows his small turbo stuff, I'd listen to him

I put the wiring back to stock, and turned the boost to 15 psi. It still is seeing some knock, around 4500 rpm... then seems to go up. Mass air is reading 24.5lbs/min. It seems like something has changed, and I don't know what or how. Before, I wasn't seeing any negative timing, and less knock. This level of airflow definitely shouldn't be too much.

 

[1slowhatch]

Alright, you guys win. I just ordered ECMlink, a 255 fuel pump and made an offer on a set of 1120cc injectors.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Lol now your thinking with the noggin . Crank that boost after its all installed haha. Trust me you won't regret it. Also when you get the 255 redo the rewire. It's possible the stock pump is just not up to the challenge anymore. Either way the 255, link and injectors was a great call bro

 

[1slowhatch]

Yeah, I've had dreams on a holset install in the future and we just recently got E85 here again.. I figure it hurts now, but it needs to be done either way. Was hoping to have some fun until then, but oh well. Should be plenty of fuel system to max out the stock 7 bolt internals.

 

[1slowhatch]

On a side note, I ordered it directly from ecmlink.com... I need to have my EPROM ecu socketed.. I paid for the service at check out. Do I just mail them the ECU to the address on the website?

 

[Dsmkauai]

I think you have to wait till they contact you. It says on the page just don't remember off hand. But ya you will end up mailing it that address. The other benefit is your ecu will be fully looked over and repaired. One less major thing to not have to worry about crapping out on you. Says it all right here

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[1slowhatch]

Coolio, thanks. They looked it over. It's supposed to be here tomorrow, along with the injectors. Got the Walbro late last week.

 

[boostdawd]

U will agree with all of us that ecmlink should have been the very first purchase u should have made when u got your dsm after u use it and see its magic.

 

[Type1DSMr]

If you don't already have one make sure to get an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator. You will need one for the walbro 255 fuel pump.

 

[jimsgsx]

Any progress? I have 2 friends with same exact symptoms.

 

[boostdawd]

How did the setup come along? Have u dialed anything in?

 

[1slowhatch]

This car has had many changes since then. I undid the fuel pump rewire, and the car ran fine again. I took it to my local drag strip (4000+ altitude, with air density usually much higher) and ran a 14.3 on 18 PSI. Anything more, the car would spin badly on the launch and hit fuel cut going down the track.

I have since installed the FIC 1120cc injectors, DSMlink, and Walbro 255. I dialed the injectors in, and started tuning. It was amazingly easy to get the driveability pretty darn good. High 14's cruise/idle, very little combined fuel trims cruise and idle, high 10's under high boost (only can muster around 22psi on a cool night on 91 octane). The car felt faster, but not really night and day.

I then decided to try my hand at E85 (tests around E77 right now). I have maxed out the boost controller (25psi spike, falls to 24psi in cool weather), timing near 21 degrees at 6500 RPM, and afrs (gas wideband) in the 12.0 range. It definitely seems torquier than on pump gas, but not a whole lot faster. I'm concerned I'm completely out of turbo (old Big16g). I see a max on 33 lb/min when cold outside on 24psi. Remember, I am at high altitude with dry, desert air.

My next problem that just popped up is very poor cold weather drivability/cold starts on E85. It literally ran on 2 or 3 cylinders all the way to work this morning. I parked it in the sun, and drove it at lunch, no problems, just like normal. I've added some coolant temp based fuel, without much difference. I'm considering going to a hotter spark plug/more gap?? I'm on a BPR7 at .025 now, considering going to a BPR6?? Any input!?? It's not even that cold here yet, so this isn't going to cut it.